Death Cafe

DH and I were on holiday in Cyprus years ago and got talking to another couple, as you do, and somehow the question of Wills came up. The lady said to me they definitely would not make Wills as they felt they would be "tempting providence".
I said well your family won't feel like that if everything is difficult for them-suggested they just do them then put them away and forget about them. . .strange how thinking that if you don't do a Will you can somehow defer the inevitable?

I think it is a good idea. I guess it doesn't have to be gruesome. Also, I get jaded doing 'small talk' and platitudes a lot of the time. It is a way of getting beyond the superficial chit chat which is ok for a short time, but limits really getting to a sleeper level of conversation , and idea sharing

Sorry if I gave the wrong impression about these Death Cafes. Nobody actually discusses the practicalities of funeral arrangements; it is a far more philosophical affair where people talk generally about life, beginning to end, but all come away feeling uplifted.

I think death as a subject generally is often thought of as morbid here in the West, i.e. unhealthy or abnormal, but as it is a universal condition I think it's fair game as a subject, just like any other.

I know many, many people who are prevented from discussing death by family members who think it's 'morbid' to do so. Their own discomfort with the subject then leaves their relative with the frustration of not being able to speak about something which is, to them, hugely important; often at a time in life when the matter is foremost in their minds.

Hi JaneAinsworth, I've never heard about hospice at home and suspect many others haven't either - so it's good to hear about this service. Having lost both my parents and several aunts and uncles in the past 15 years all but one died in hospital- not at home or a hospice as they would have wished. As for the one - this was my mother who died in Jan 2014 and it took a 6 day battle with social services to get her home out of hospital as that was her wishes. We succeeded so that she spent her last 2 days at home. The hospital did their best to sort it but the local social services/PCT were the problem.
Having had various friends as well as clients who have had ill/dying relatives the majority of them have passed away in hospital when they also would have preferred to be at home/hospice. So I do have a basis for feeling that death has been "medicalised" in more recent times. A hospital is not a great place to die in my opinion - homes or hospices are so much more personal and comforting for the individual and their friends and relatives.
I am still surprised of what topics people don't like to discuss with their nearest and dearest - last wishes ad preferences, power of attorney, death, funeral planning, sorting out paperwork/admin /practicalities.

I do think all talk about death has to start with the person whose demise is under discussion and like most discussions about the facts of life it has to start early, when the death is hopefully far far away.

After my DS died when I was in my 40's I made odd comments when talking about her funeral about what I would like and the conversation has continued off and on in a low key way ever since, like the discussion I had recently about coffin and flowers, and quoted in an earlier post. We have told DC whenever we have revised our wills and what the terms of it are. Since we have been equally open on almost every other subject that is considered awkward, our DC are quite comfortable when the subject our our deaths and the aftermath arise. DD recently raised the subject of what the survivor would do when one of us died and that is now gently being resolved.

Personally, I find this subject and all its ramifications far easier to talk about with those nearest to me, none of us feel any discomfort or embarrassment. I would not want to discuss it with strangers, unless they had a very good reason for wanting to know.

Believe it or not, it is definitely easier to talk about death with total strangers than anyone emotionally close to you. And yes, there are people who through no fault of their own happen to be alone in the world and forced to deal with their own affairs and funeral arrangements in order to spare anyone else the task. Speaking with a group empathetic to this subject in a matter of fact and positive, even humorous way does provide the courage necessary to cope. More than that, you go through your Bucket list much faster and start to use all your best clothes, china and scent on any ordinary day, just because it's........Tuesday and you feel like it ! ;-)

With you there Jingl.
And I don't agree about death being taken out of the home, Louise.
The Hospice at Home service is available for end of life care for those who wish it.

I think it's totally against nature to deliberately dwell on death like that. Surely the object of being alive at our age is to stay that way as long as possible, and enjoy as much of life as we can.

It's just another silly gimmick - like the cats one. (although I can see some sense in that)

Oh retiredRGN how I sympathise. My dear sister lost her husband after a l-o-n-g drawn out illness. She too was a nurse (retired to nurse him) and everyone (even in the family too) expected her to be in charge. I made sure she was well supported and by DNs too, her former colleagues. It was just after Shipman and their GP was useless, was obviously frightened to death of prescribing anything "to help". It was an uphill battle with everything. Mercifully they both knew the expected outcome and kept their courage and even good humour too. DH and I took our lead from them-if they laughed, we laughed. When he was first diagnosed and we (sort of knew what was to come) we all sat and had a good old weep together and then said "right, that's enough of that"!
And like Louise says everything is "medicalised"-births and deaths. Not always a good idea IMHO.

What an intriguing concept. I've just had a look online and found that there is one near me in Greater Manchester on 5 May in Didsbury. deathcafe.com/deathcafe/3110/
Having dealt with 3 bereavements in the last 2 years we have had to discuss this aspect of life in my family and my husbands family. It's a topic that needs airing - as in today's society I feel that we have taken death out of the home and ordinary life and "medicalised" it.
I may well just go along out of curiosity. Given the growing number of people living alone and those ageing without children ( either childless or because children live far away/ abroad, have predeceased or are estranged - see AWOC UK ) then thinking about your wishes and also dealing with the practical side of this stage of life is a good thing. I can see that each event could be unique given the facilitator and the people attending. If I do go I'll post a review here.

As others have said there's huge reluctance to talk about death. Just as hospices are usually places of laughter as well as tears I could imagine a death cafe, sensitively facilitated, could be the same. We see life and death as separate things yet in many ways they are so connected, as endings and beginnings always seem to be. I think I'd go to something like that, if I was confident it was well run, the hospice option sounds good to me. I'm not short of friends or family but not everyone feels comfortable talking openly, thinking it's morbid to do so. Maybe talking with others in that setting would be a useful starting point in broaching the subject with reluctant family members.

Sorry. It was the concept of death cafes. I hadn't seen the previous post.

Does the "never" and "ugh" refer to death or cats? Lol!
I find it fascinating that the Victorians had these grand death bed scenes and wouldn't speak of sex and now the pendulum has swung the other way. Sex is everywhere and in your face while death is not mentioned or euphemised, as others have said.
We speak in our family about death, only when it sort of arises and not in a heavy way. We're all Christians which helps. When we travel we always leave a folder out with all our details in to make life easier for our DDs should we not return.
This is not morbid-death is inevitable no matter what your beliefs or none.

Thanks, Pamish and DecAnts for information. The London cafe sounds very inviting. I shall look out for one near me.

As you can tell from my user name im a retired nurse Worked for 40 years mainly in elderly care so talking witnessing and caring for the dying and the dead were part of my daily and latterly nightly life Helped people cope with it in every way i could It beggars belief though that when my Mam was poorly and was in the latter stages of her cancer hilwt also coping with Alzheimers I was told through a DN that the Mcmillan Nurse would not be visiting as i was a retired nurse and could cope! Even though the lady in the bed was my Mam not a patient Also had to support my sister too who had no experince of death or dying Needless to say i dont support them at all ( sorry went off on a tangent there)

But from what I have read of them these cafes are aimed at people who feel uncomfortable thinking or talking about their own death, especially with their family and find iit easier to work with a facilitator to do so.

In our family we have always been open to discuss almost anything (there must be something we do not talk about) and have discussed at sometime or another, almost every thing Pamish mentioned in her post. Not in any formal 'We must have a Conversation about matters associated with my eventual death' manner, but just casually'.

Over Easter for example DD and I had a light conversation about what coffin and flowers I would like. It arose because I was waxing lyrical about how this odd winter has meant that lots of the spring wild flowers were all out together and the field edges and banks were a mass of colour and looked beautiful. By the time we finished we had agreed on a woven willow coffin, without any wreaths, but wild flowers threaded into the lid (I must make sure I die when the primroses are in bloom). We then moved on to discussing where to go for lunch.

Hi Monica...that was exactly my initial reaction and most in the group admitted to it as well but then our curiosity got the better of us and no one regrets having succumbed ! My new mantra : Never say No till you've tried something ! :-))

Ugh !

Never

Re the Cat Cafe that has been mentioned, I read only yesterday that a similar one has been closed down because it became too smelly.

I live in Vancouver, Canada. A few weeks ago, a friend was admitted to the ICU and his partner had no idea if he had a will, if he had a NDR in place, they had had no discussion about death at all (and they had been together EIGHT YEARS!) So I decided to go to a Death Cafe in a bookshop near me. There was no commercial promotion at all, and the discussion was initiated by the wishes of the group. There was a lady who had cancer and her family would not talk about it, a woman whose best friend had begged her with her eyes to talk to her while the husband denied that his wife was within hours of dying, the recently bereaved and people like me who had been jolted into awareness by the near death of someone close. The discussion was respectful, emotional at times, and I am sure, healing for some.
For me, it was a positive experience, prompting a frank and open discussion about my death, freeing my children from any uncertainty about my wishes.
As long as there is no agenda on the part of the facilitator, and no hint of commercial promotion, I would recommend the experience.

rosesarered and vickya - I need to know where this 'cat cafe' is!

Talking about death, last week my DGD, age 6 asked her Mum (my DD) if she could choose her again as her Mum next time she came back.
I know this might sound odd to some but we are used to it. She was about 4 when she told us where she died.

Hi Elrel.....my Death Cafe in London is not really a 'business'. The group leader is a charming 'young' French Buddhist woman who happens to have lost 3 close family members within a short time and, after nearly dying herself, she totally changed the way she felt about life/death. We contribute £5 to the 2 hour 'session' (£30 from six people) for administrative purposes as she also runs a website. Hardly enough to grow rich on a once a month basis. She simply has become deeply intrigued with the subject but is amazingly positive. All attendees said they felt the meeting quite up-lifting.