English anthem

Flower of Scotland recalls the famous victory of Bannockburn 700 years ago! Unfortunately those of us who had Scottish history drummed into us at school will also recall the infamous defeat at Flodden, commemorated in the dirge-like Flowers o' the Forest which admittedly wouldn't inspire the Scottish rugby team!

Anyone can give a view, how kind grumppa , as long as your advice to ignore views of anyone who isn't English is taken

Do you think the English should have an anthem more like:-

"Though foemen have trampled my land 'neath their feet,
The language of Cambria still knows no retreat"

then, Anniebach in the same vein as "Rebellious Scots to crush" in God Save the Queen?

Should it be division or harmony?

Anyone can give a view, and the English can choose which views to take into account.

I couldn't care less what the England anthem is , just joined in the discussion, but seems it's only the English should give a view on words of the songs.

and I don't think the question in the hymn is rhetorical - it is a question ?

I think he may have visited here during those undocumented years with his uncle who was allegedly a prominent tin merchant.

There is no proof either way though.

If I were English and atheist I wouldn't want an anthem speaking of Christ trotting around Glastonbury and I wouldn't wish to speak of dark satanic mills, the former a lie , the latter not praise for a country there , certainly nothing to be proud of.

But that's OK, because you won't ever have to sing it

(not that I would choose it either btw)

I didn't understand your post either Anniebach. I confess to loving Jerusalem, I love to sing it and I live in the north west where my ancestors worked (or slaved ) in the dark satanic mills. I don't belief Christ actually walked our green and pleasant land, other than in our hearts. I'd be very happy to have it sung at footi matches but I accept we're going to continue to hear the Queen sung.

what was nonsense Rosesarered?

Is .Jerusalem not about Christ in Glastonbury and the brutality of the static mills

Is swing low sweet chariot not a song of freedom from slavery by death

Do you really believe God made you mighty ?

It didn't say it in the article, but possibly in one of the links?
Parry,s wife was part of the Women's Suffrage Movement, so it's not surprising.
I presume it's royalty free now.

What a load of nonsense anniebach in your post, your usual anti-English is rearing it's Welsh ahead again I see.How about we do as grumpaa suggests and ignore all suggestions from other countries in the UK.

I read the article, dj thank you. I am not sure if it mentioned it but I believe Parry actually donated/bequeathed the royalties from 'Jerusalem' to the Wonen's Suffrage Movement and then when women got the vote 1928?) that was passed on to the WI.

Only a small proportion was made up of 'convinced atheists' though.

There was a poll last Easter that put Britain sixth from bottom in the religious stakes.

And I don't believe that the majority of the English are atheists.

First rule for those English who are looking for their own anthem: ignore all advice from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

I am guided by God but I don't believe Christ was in Glastonbury . Why can't you find an anthem which speaks of pride in your past not dreams of a place called Jeruselem in your country, you wouldn't even agree where to build it , north, south or middle

Land of hope and glory - hypocritical when the majority are atheists and God didn't make you mighty, swords, bayonets and guns did.

Swing low sweet chariot - a song sung by slaves longing for death and a better life in heaven

I think something new should be written , makes no difference to me, I don't have to sing it but it's a pity you can't seem to find an anthem which doesn't insult other countries or bring a god you don't believe in into it

Having said that, as a half-English atheist I can live with the concept of building the new Jerusalem as a philosophical ideal, just as my Welsh half can cope with being guided by the Great Jehovah.

Difficult to strike at the end of term, but we had a bit of previous with a petition signed by literally a couple of hundred boys about the quality of the food. These things stick in headteachers' minds.

Not that it's a great choice. In today's Times John Julius Norwich points out the inherent nonsense of an anthem which asks a series of questions to which the answer is no.

If I were English and atheist I wouldn't want an anthem speaking of Christ trotting around Glastonbury and I wouldn't wish to speak of dark satanic mills, the former a lie , the latter not praise for a country there , certainly nothing to be proud of.

Well done your school, grumppa. Did you threaten to go on strike?

Interesting to see there were calls for it to be the national anthem in 1927. It's taken a long time.

Thank you for the link, dj. We sang it at the end of term at my school, and when the chapel was being rebuilt there was an outcry at the suggestion that it should be dropped. We felt that if it was not sung the term could not properly be said to have ended, so the authorities gave way and it was sung to a piano accompaniment at the end of assembly. Pupil power in the early sixties!

theconversation.com/jerusalem-a-history-of-englands-hymn-55668

Village Green Preservation Society was sung by the Kinks, not the one in yhe Itslian job. And the other one is called Jerusalem. Ask any WI member!