How poor is poor?

daphne, I think that many people are just trying to illustrate that you can live and survive on poverty incomes. I had to, I had ice on my bedroom window inside, few clothes and used to often have a jam or sugar sandwich, yet I was cared for and the few clothes I had were clean.
I did not consider myself poor I assumed that everyone else was the same. im not much better off now and I work.

My other point is that how can so many people be addicted to smoking, drinking and drugs if they are on benefit. I found that after paying the bills I had nothing left for food so I had to either borrow from my family or use the credit card I went back to work as soon as possible. I could never have paid out good money for cigs or alcohol. Do some people put smoking/drink/drugs first before the bills. I would die of shame if my bills were not paid on time.

With one rehab centre 14 rooms, in this country , there is little support, yes counselling is available but at set times , addicts need more support than a weekly appointment

Penstemmon, it is now almost impossible for young people on an ordinary income to buy a home unless parents can help. If they rent they can't afford to save for a deposit on s house. I am sorry your nephew is having difficulty finding a job, someone may see past the Aspergers , I so hope so.

Annieb I agree that the odds seem to favour those who already have 'enough' money enabling them to get even more. Again if there was political will , from whichever group was in power, to prevent this it would be a good step.

I think my daughters (late 30s) were probably the last group to have a chance of buying a home of their own on 'ordinary' incomes (one NHS worker married to a firefighter, one state school teacher living with a builder) Whilst we topped up a deposit for one daughter we did so to reduce the loan she could have had from the bank and not because they could not get/afford it.

My nephews in their 20s can no way consider buying and rent with friends but are not 'poor' although one is dependent on benefits. He has Aspergers and whilst he did manage a degree he is not finding it easy to gain a job. At the moment he is still living in his family home. I worry about his future.

Smoking is incredibly hard to give up as the addiction works on so many levels.

Alcohol - help available but denial often in place
Smoking - can be done if children are put first but, as Ana says, it is very addictive
Drugs - no personal (only work) experience

What the heck to people's personal tales have to do with poverty? Once again, people are saying 'I grew up in poverty, but now I'm OK', therefore I'm justified in having no interest in people who are poor!

This argument is based on ignorance and complacency.

The FACT is that approximately 4 million people in the UK are living in households, which are classified by whatever method as being in poverty.

They're in a minority. Their vote doesn't count and few people are listening. The majority live in their smug bubble and couldn't care less.

PS. I know how to feed a family of six for a week on a mouse carcase and a shoe lace, if anybody is interested! Ahh! It was so good in the old days!

Alcohol and drug addictions are not illnesses. They are addictions.

Smoking can be given up much easier than drink or drugs? I've heard that nicotine is harder to give up than heroin.

I'm sure some of the people Galen refers to are not actual addicts, but have made a choice to prioritise their lifestyle habits over any sense of responsibility for their own situation.

Smoking or alcohol and drugs Rosequartz ?

£24000 annual income - would that be per person or per household?

Per household, we're a third above that.

Just about to have our bathroom completely re-done, walk in shower with level access, seat, everything suitable for an older couple with - ahem - multiple physical problems. Money well spent.

I read Townsend many years ago. He'd progressed on from Rowntree's original definition that 'a man in poverty can write no letters, drink no beer, smoke no tobacco' because he couldn't afford to buy a stamp etc. Obviously a more up to date definition is needed.

I was an illegitimate child growing up in a very poor family. There were no child benefits of any kind. I don't honestly know just what we lived on, apart from my Grandad's old age pension and my Mum's earnings as a skivvy in richer women's houses. I do know that I never felt poor or deprived. Was always fed, warm, clothed, shod and most important of all, I was conscious of being loved.

I know, Anniebach, but some people will not try to give up despite being offered help.

Smoking whilst addictive can be given up much easier than alcohol or drugs

It must be difficult to give up smoking but if it came to a choice between smoking, having the latest tattoo etc or feeding your children I know which I would choose.
And yes, I do have relatives who work in a food bank (and the clients do stand smoking in the queue over their children's pushchairs) and I am not a rabid right winger and yes I do contribute to the food bank for those in desperate need but you are right Galen although some people will not acknowledge it

Alcohol and drug addiction are serious illnesses and these people need food too ,i have much sympathy for them , I doubt anyone starts drinking in the knowledge they will become addicted

I'm afraid I have little sympathy for the ones I know are smoking, drinking and using drugs. Refuse to co operate with the job centre programmes then use the food banks.

Yes, that is grossly unfair, it means that people with little money are subsidising the electricity of those who are better off. In the old days it was the same, when money went into the meter.

The young mums sitting in coffee shops with bags of clothes are probably not the same young mums who have to go to food banks (not sure why they would be?).

What makes me so cross is the fact that paying for electricity with a meter card costs more than a monthly direct debit payment , this is so unfair to people with little money

I've been working as a debt adviser for a charity for 6 years now and tragically I see all too often people whom I would classify as "poor" My definition of poor is if you don't have enough money to cover your essentials- food , heating , electricity, shelter.
In more recent years there has been a significant increase in the people that we are coming across who are in this situation - and not just those on benefits - people and couples who work can still find themselves in this position - sad times :-(

Bijou 92? If that's not a mistake you are amazing. Computer literate etc.
Hardship certainly did not hold you back.

I like your thoughts and your comments, daphnedill

Granjura, what thoughtful, rounded thinking on what is indeed a difficult subject. I couldn't have put it better myself.

£24k - just shows how the rich are getting much richer. When I got married all our furniture was secondhand. I had only one dress - given to me by my sister. I made all the clothes for myself and my 2 children as I couldn't afford to buy any, and went to jumble sales for the rest. When I was little my dad used to heat bricks on the fire and wrap them in newspaper for a "hot water bottle". What really hurts is that I got no love or emotional support from my parents or sisters and brothers, but I helped them all when they needed it. Strangers have been kinder to me. Life is full of takers and givers, but if you are at least loved by those around you it helps you through the tough times. Boo hoo!

Personally I feel that the over the years perceptions about what is hard up have changed considerable. When I was growing up 40's and 50's we had very little of what is normal for folk to have now but then nobody else did,

When my children were young 70's we thought we had so much more in the way of comfort and convenience and could even afford camping holidays in France on one salary.

Now we help our married son and his wife and our grandchild out financially quite a lot even though they consider eating out as part of their lifestyle, use far more convenience foods than we ever did or do now and are going abroad on holiday next year.

Its funny that although we are reasonably well off I still use all the old money saving tricks that I grew up with, perhaps that is why we are reasonably well of!

It doesn't have to be about the children. It's the mothers who need the break.