How poor is poor?

Nannanoo, yes experienced it until I was given work in the convent which allowed me to start work after taking the children to school and finishing work before end of school day and all school holidays off on half pay, so didn't struggle for too long thank God. I now have the state pension and a very small police widows pension so I don't have to be cold or hungry but I cannot forget what poverty was like and all these years on I feel so for those living in poverty now because I have been there . What troubles me now is they also have to cope with being branded benefit cheats or lazy . Yes such people exist but to brand all the same is so wrong

In schools today a child whose family relies on benefits should be accessing after school clubs and trips and even get some uniform paid for. Schools receive additional funding for such children and are advised that this is what they could spend the money on.

So many things that were normal to my DGPs where my mother and I mostly stayed in the1940s might indicate poverty today. The spotless outside lavatory, newspaper threaded on postman's string on nail in whitewashed wall; the galvanised bath used in front of the living room fire; the cold tap at the kitchen sink; beautiful Jack Frost fern patterns on the inside of bedroom windows on cold mornings.
On Freecycle sites now there are pleas from those who are 'desperate' for a silver fridge admittedly beside more genuine appeals and some generous offers.
Young people describe themselves as 'homeless' when things are bad at home, oblivious of relatives offering them (but not their friends!) food and a bed whenever needed. To me homeless is the the people queuing for a hot drink and sandwich handout on a cold nighttime city street
Essentials for a single childless young person moving into a flat seem to (in their eyes) include a washing machine. My mother had her first in the 60s, her first fridge a year or two later. I managed without a washing machine (with a school age child) for several years in the 80s.

I saw a child, aged about 10, in the supermarket today (in the chilled area). She was wearing a short summer skirt, a t-shirt and flipflops. She was shivering.
Now I started worrying about the child and wondering if a) was her family very poor and could not afford decent clothes for her or b) was she being stroppy and insisted on going out in those clothes and her parent let her.
She darted away before I could see who she was with.
I hope it was the latter, remembering that I did come home one very cold November day after Christmas shopping to find DD (aged 3) playing in the front (not allowed) wearing shorts and t-shirt. DH said 'but that's what she wanted to put on'

I haven't read every post, so apologise if someone else has touched on this. I think it a national disgrace that this country has to have food banks, so that people can feed their families, when we are supposed to be a rich country. Also find the expression "working poor" offensive. There should be no such thing. If you're working you should be getting a decent wage. There's a lot of money around, but a vast amount is concentrated on a small percentage of the population.

I think that of low income families I have known , through work, there were also 'poor' families who genuinely could not afford a winter coat/new shoes etc. and who had to make a very limited amount of money feed the kids as well as themselves. it only takes a small event, e.g. dropping a pint of milk, to tip the balance from being fed to being hungry.
I think that single homeless are probably very vulnerable too as they are the bottom of the benefit list.

Re virtue signalling... none of us know much about what everyone might be/ not be doing in supporting causes they speak about! It seems like a media /political invention a bit like 'politically correct' or 'health and Safety gone mad' to put down people who think a bit differently or who the press/political groups want to undermine or denigrate.

I don't think it means that. I believe it was originally directed at twitter users who would jump on whatever bandwagon was currently popular and tweet their disapproval or otherwise without really knowing much about the subject at all.

It sounds rather pejorative to me and seems to be being used in that way. Not necessarily on here but more widely.

ethel the beauty of the charity shop I work in( R.S.P.C.A) is I also get 20% off anything I purchase I prob would never have gone to work in a charity shop but for the jobcenter "encouraging me" I love it, I have even been in 2 extra days this last week as its saves sitting at home having to put the heating on I wouldnt mind a aid job there!

Today I have wore a pair of Next leather boots nice n comfy that went with my jeggings...and cost me..........£3-20!

(and the thieving in charity shops is as rife as in any other shops)!

I think it depends on what those around you are able to do in comparison, e.g. friends, neighbours, family. For instance, we can't afford to take a holiday any more. This perhaps wouldn't bother me if I didn't see 'everybody else' going on one, two, maybe more exotic holidays a year in their mellowing years.

I am lucky like a lot of people on here have our own Bungalow have very good private pensions coming in but we did save very hard to get where we are

I found the courage to leave my partner after 27 years so I now find
myself just scraping by I pay 500 a month in rent now (he kept the house) I have just over £900 a month in wages so I consider myself as fairly poor yet I couldn't be more content and at peace with myself money doesn't buy happiness it's taken me a long time to realise this.

we have very low income, far less than the average, however, we are asset rich so not really poor. trying to live within our means. though we have started the year with a big outlay to replace white goods. I doubt we will live within our means this year.

There is the grinding poverty of people who live in countries with no Welfare State/pensions/benefits/free education/free health service etc and there is poverty in countries like the UK which is a very different matter.

Our joint household income just touches £14,000.
In our previous rented house we lived without hot water or heating for 7 years. [We moved in Summer 2012 and are thrilled to have hot water now.]

I cannot get there these days, but car boot sales are cheaper than charity shops, and jumble sales are much cheaper than car boot sales.

Because we are no longer living in the old house, long story short, I do not qualify for any care. At the moment I can still just about haul myself from my bed into the wheelchair to get to the bathroom and back again. I have progressive MS, which has paralysed my entire left side and given me a heart condition and double vision.
And I had breast cancer which [after a mastectomy and axillary node dissection] has given me osteoporosis - from the hormone-suppression tablets I have to take daily for five years - and the tablets for that have given me diabetes.
I also have severe osteo-arthritis, which means I cannot walk a single step or even stand for a moment, and I am confined to a hospital-style-bed or an electric wheelchair - on loan from the NHS/ Social Services.

We last took the children [both now in their 20s] on holiday in 2000.

I do not think we live in poverty, nor do I feel particularly poor. We do not smoke or drink but we do have a laptop computer and a television and an ancient car [even if I can no longer get into or out of a car!].

BIL and his wife live next door. They have a joint income rather in excess of £60,000 and are always claiming poverty. They have a nice car each, and so do their children, they chain smoke and drink a bottle of wine a night each, and I cannot remember them having fewer than six family holidays abroad - every year - in all the time I have known them. They went every school holiday and every half term to Europe or the Caribbean, etc..

Because them-next-door always [frequently and loudly] claim poverty, dh's family think that by comparison we must be living in riches, even though they have just bought a house - from savings - without needing a mortgage.

We have no mortgage and no savings but no debts.
BIL once told me their credit card bill was more than 6 figures.

I suppose it is a matter of perception, but luckily I am one of the happiest people I know, . I am always thankful for what I have, rather than sore for what I do not have. The CAB tell me I cannot get care without paying for it, and we have all the benefits we are entitled to claim. I am trying to stay as fit as I can as I cannot think how we would pay for care for me.

When poverty is just a matter of perspective, I would suggest it is not poverty...

I live on a very limited income and my daily paper round is really useful; all 3 in the household are registered disabled, but I may lose my DLA any day (was assessed for PIPs a couple of days before Xmas). I'd love to give up my paper round, but if they decide I don't qualify for PIPs, can't afford to. That said, I'm a saver rather than a spender and if I need something, I'll do without until I've saved up. But when the kids were small, it was genuinely a question of whether to pay the rent, buy them clothes or feed them (more than once we went without food so that they could eat). When MIL goes, we'll inherit her house and a fair amount in savings, but for now, we manage comfortably; all bills are paid on time, we eat healthily and have a nice little nest egg. So no, don't see us as " poor".

We moved back to the UK, after 11 years and three young children, from Africa. Right into the 1980s depression. While we were never "rich" in Africa, we were surprised as how hard it was in the UK. The children all had second-hand clothes, and new shoes were always going to be a problem. We both worked, me during the school hours. After four months, my husband was given notice under the 'last in, first out' rule. We spent four miserable months trying to just exist, until he found another job. We were unaware that we could have got free school meals, help with the running of the house, etc. We all had second-hand bikes, saving a fortune on the buses. Eventually, we set up working for ourselves which would, surprisingly, make things easier financially because we could work with an overdraft, although my running joke has always been that the interest we paid on this overdraft meant the bankers always had a much better cost of living than we ever did! We worked like this for 17 years, before our type of work moved over to other countries and we were unable to keep up with the constantlg moving technology. This time, we quickly found jobs as the culture had changed somewhat from our earlied years. Now both retired, we aren't flush, but not poor either. I feel desperately sorry for people who are forced to live on very little as we have been there. It's time to start thinking about helping our own in this country and give our youngsters, in particular, a chance for a better future. None of my children were able to go to university through lack of money. It has been a struggle for them too, although all now have jobs but constantly moan about the cost of living and worry about the future for their own children.

I think that the £24.000 is just a marker for statistical purposes. One is judged too often on what one has or does not possess by others about others. It is all rather pathetic really.
As long as those who genuinely need help get it for the right reasons that should be all that matters. Sadly this doesnot always happen and it gets into the wrong hands.
We all require enough to be able to live but it is very relative to each and everyone of us as to what that amount is.
A very Happy New Year to you all.

As a child I never considered 'us ' poor. I was an only child my father worked for British Rail, we lived in a council house. Until I started junior school my mother never worked. Then she got a job as a dinner lady so she had the holidays off. In the winter the fire wasn't lit until my father was due home. If it got really cold ( 1960 s) we went to bed in the afternoon. I slept at night with coats on the bed as extra blankets. We collected wood for the fire and can remember having bone stew ! ( Bones that have some meat on which we ate and the bones went on another plate on the table ) Did anyone else remember having that ?

18 months ago I was put onto Universal Credit. Due to a mix up with coming off ESA I had no money for 7 weeks. I got a loan off the social of £153 during this time which paid for food and electricity but obviously not my bills (such as rent ) I had to ask my 23yr old son to move in with his Dad which broke my heart. When I finally got Universal Credit I was left with £250 per month. Of this £110 went on the dreaded Bedroom Tax leaving me with £140 a month to pay my bills, buy electric (I have pre-payment meters and luckily it was summer so could manage without gas)and food. My son helped me out though he was on JSA.

Now I receive disability benefits I feel rich. I have no debt apart from rent. I still dread any of the white appliances dying but will buy 2nd hand when that happens. I can now afford to visit my other son who lives 200 miles away occasionally and see my 4yr old Grandson.

During my lifetime (I am 92) standards have changed. In the 30s only the rich had household appliances now they are considered essential. When I was first married after 4 years in the WAAF we lived in an attic room and my knuckles were sore from scrubbing nappies on a washboard. Saved up to buy a radio.
I think,a lot of pensioners are "poor" because they are too proud to apply for benefits. I own my bungalow and have a good standard of living thanks to pension guarantee credit and lower rate attendance allowance enabling me to employ daily help and have never been in debt all my life.

The coffee shops are full of young mums complaining they are short of money but have shopping bags of clothes. I Take my drink with me when going to town. £5 for a coffee and muffin buys a lot of veg.

Yes OlderNoWiser, I remember the ice on the inside of the window frames, metal frames, in a prefabricated bungalow after the War. Chilblains on hands and feet travelling on the bus. We also lived on rations, 4 oz meat per week. My Dad was sick with a TB Kidney and because he would be off work a long time was sacked. I saw my Mum crying and there were only two of us children. We always ate well as my Mum could make things stretch. In fact cooking from scratch was the answer. I am 76 now and on less than £24,000 half of that in fact.

While my Dad was sick my Mum got a part time job in a café and met the Manager from the "Labour Exchange" having his lunch. She asked if there were any jobs for my Dad, a new factory was being built and even though Dad's was recovering from a major operation he was taken on. He was there until he retired. My Dad was brought up in an orphanage from 6 years of age. He always did his best for us and made sure we had a good child hood.

I do think younger people today have no idea how we lived then and therefore think they are poor.

Well said Bijou. Expectations are very high now.

And Marieeliz.
It is really interesting hearing about these life stories..