How poor is poor?

You had to mention those who were smoking. The image of mothers with pushchairs and a fag in their mouth is straight out of the Daily Mail.

It was this little gem from Daffydill anniebach
which tends to make me sound like a liar along with the person who told me.

I promise not to publish any bigoted rightwing rubbish any more and to pay all my taxes in full.

I think we need to stop personal sniping and niggling and concentrate on the point of this thread which is surely that it is a disgrace that there are around 4 million in dire poverty. Daphnedill your figures are useful to have as figure that we can all recognise, and whichever way we discuss it, it is a shameful that there is this situation in what is the fifth wealthiest nation. We all appreciate that things have moved on, and that some on here had very impoversihed upbringings but surely we should be moving on? We dont honestly want the same sort of poverty for our children and grandchildren? Another issue, as a slight aside, is that the food given out by foodbanks is, I believe, store cupboard type items, high carbohydrate stuff, a lot of pasta. Growing children need good quality protein and fresh veg. We can all think that we would manage on a strict budget, make do and mend etc., and for a short time it could be an interesting challeneg, but to have it stretching out ahead of you for the foreseaable future with little prediction of things getting better must be the most desperately depressing situation to be in. Yes, I know there are undoubtedly some people who milk the system, who are dishonest, but this is no reason to make it even more difficult for genuine families, people in need of short term or long term help.

I learned to cook and sew in school, we didn't have to be concerned with computers did we, time marches on

I think the government and press definition of poor is the one mentioned as being poor compared to your peer group, so you might have a car, big screen tv, i pad etc and your children might be malnourished, if not due to lack of money, then due to lack of knowledge/time/ or the the will to cook nutritional meals. I am sure many of us here new a different sort of poverty as children, and I look back on photos of my children when they were little and before I went back to work, and cringe to see their mismatched second hand clothes, but I think our quality of life was richer in those days. A pensioner living alone may be able to live reasonably on £150 week but if they own their home and something goes wrong, they could be in trouble. Otherwise, the real poor are the ones that Mama Caz describes, and those who live in other countries with no social security or free health service, and very few job opportunities, and the ones made homeless by war, like the refugees in Lebanon where instead of school, children as young as six do manual labour for a few pennies and prebuscent girls sell their bodies for a meal. That is poverty.

Don't believe you are a billionaire or own newspapers or own a house in Barbados Rosequartz

There are so manny different points here. Nicotine is as addictive as heroin or I'm told by people who have helped addicts more so. So I sympathise with those mums who need to smoke when they have a rubbish life and I also sympathise with those who want to give them a good shake when they haven't got food but have got ciggies. I lved with a smoker and hated the money spent on it and when he gave up I hated the cold turkey which he says never leaves. And we could afford it. I also remember the things Bijou says along with many others and although she has 20 years life experience more than I ,I share her fear of what life holds for people who can't manage. It all boils down to education. We learnt to sew cook and basic metal and woodwork at our local grammar and sec mod schools. The last generation did CDT which meant they looked at how things might be made but never how to do it ie design a dress but not make one or look at an apple but not bake one. This last one wasa quote from a domestic science teacher. I don't volunteer in a food bank but have friends who do and have heard sad stories of volunteers trying to explain what you did with a bag of pasta and a jar of purée .

I did not say you were quoting the Daily Mail, your post of mothers with pushchairs queueing in a food bank and smoking was so the attitude of the Daily Mail bashing those on benefits. I am sure everyone is quite aware that some people in poverty smoke , some drink, some take drugs , some are benefits cheat, rather like declaring some married women have affairs ,

You are right Bijou when you say that life is so much more stressful now, it may have been poorer back then but simpler too, in a way that people envy.If only we could have the better standard of living and a simpler way of life! Perfection.Just trying to contact a firm this week brought my DH to the brink of insanity.
We all know that the food banks help sections of society, and we all know there are certain people who milk the benefits system and are good at it.
We had a thread about this last year, and it descended into rude and personal remarks, so how about not going down that road again.
daphnedill the accusation of being a Daily Mail reader has also been done to death on here, since you are new to the forum ( or a lurker) you may not know that.

I know that lifestyle 70 Years ago was completely different to that of today but are people happier? We were poor but we were happy and content and we had family life and love and weren't stressed like people today. I dread to think of what things will be like when my great grandchildren grow up.

The image of mothers with pushchairs and a fag in their mouth is straight out of the Daily Mail. of course it is, I own it.

That is very rude and presumptuous, it is not from the Daily Mail, is it from a dear, caring and lovely relative who has worked in a food bank for a long time and cares about those she helps - but is not so blinkered that she can't see the occasional one who needs a good shake.

Some people are so blinkered they can only see a very righteous path with no deviation from poor = worthy and anyone who dares to question a thing about it is a nasty rightwing bigot.

Well, I'm not, so don't you try to make out that I am and that my relative is.
I am glad you think you are intelligent, self-awareness is always good.

No, rose, I don't think it's how your posting came across. You had to mention those who were smoking. The image of mothers with pushchairs and a fag in their mouth is straight out of the Daily Mail.

People are referred to a food bank as a last resort. They can't pick up food on a regular basis and the food they get isn't well-balanced. There's no fresh stuff and it's full of carbohydrates. I wouldn't even have most of it in my cupboards!

As I said, most of the people have some kind of learning difficulty or mental health problem and most aren't very intelligent (to put it kindly). As an intelligent and educated person, I could see solutions which they couldn't, but I didn't have to live their lives or have their experiences. I didn't judge them. I felt incredibly frustrated that they had got into the situations they were in - through no fault of their own.

Most were there because benefits hadn't been paid, for one reason or other, and they had NO money - and I mean NO money.

In any case, the majority of people in poverty - four million of them - don't go to food banks.

Yes, all lies except anything uttered by Corbyn and his acolytes.

I am actually one of those billionaires who own these rightwing newspapers, don't know what I am doing on here when I could be sunning myself at my 3rd, 4th or 5th home in Barbados, just having a bit of fun on here and stirring people up.

here were certainly some people I would have liked to have picked up and given a good shake. We had advisors onsite, who tried to signpost people to sources of help, but it's not so easy to pick yourself up if you're chronically and seriously depressed, which many people were. The majority of people found themselves in dire circumstances through no fault of their own.
That is exactly what I said too didn'[t you realise?

Rosequartz, your relative took note of who was smoking outside and then checked if they received food? Sorry but you post was so Daily Mail, anything to finger point at those in need, I was surprised it was you who said it.

No, she didn't take note, but sometimes it is difficult not to notice things.
I also pointed out that she said how many people they help are in such desperate need.

anything to finger point at those in need
is there any need to be so unpleasant when we are discussing something and some are trying not to take a totally blinkered approach to life

Exactly, annieb! I wasn't actually born in 1945, but even comparing life now with the 1950s or 1960s is ridiculous. Examples involves phones and the internet. Of course nobody had mobiles in the 1960s - they hadn't been invented. Many people didn't have landlines, but there were telephone boxes all over the place. These days people are expected to have phones to lead a normal life. Not having an internet connection makes normal life very much more difficult, especially if a family has children, who need it for homework, or when applying for jobs, paying taxes or even claiming some benefits. A fridge is another example. My grandmother never had a fridge (never mind a freezer) but there was a corner shop at the end of her road, where she shopped almost daily, and people delivered. Life has moved on!

Poor but content is a dream not reality. Life style in 1945 cannot be compared to 2016.

Rosequartz, your relative took note of who was smoking outside and then checked if they received food? Sorry but you post was so Daily Mail, anything to finger point at those in need, I was surprised it was you who said it.

rosequartz,

I'm not a liar either. Some people even think I'm kind, lovely, generous, hardworking and honest :-). I saw people who were desperate - you have to be desperate to be eligible for a food bank voucher. It's not a lifestyle choice and you can't get food parcels on a regular basis.

rosequartz,

I volunteered in a food bank for just over a year. Smoking was strictly forbidden inside the building and I can honestly say that I never saw people queuing up outside smoking. We didn't often have queues anyway - certainly not outside.

In fact, we didn't have many mothers with pushchairs either. Maybe it was just the area where I volunteered, but most of our clients were middle-aged (40-65) men; a significant number had severe mental health problems (not related to alcohol or drug abuse) or learning difficulties. A number had been in the forces and many were divorced/separated and were affected by the so-called bedroom tax.

It depends how judgmental you are. There were certainly some people I would have liked to have picked up and given a good shake. We had advisors onsite, who tried to signpost people to sources of help, but it's not so easy to pick yourself up if you're chronically and seriously depressed, which many people were. The majority of people found themselves in dire circumstances through no fault of their own.

In reply to Luckyfour. I do know some of my contemporaries who are too proud to claim benefits. I never went to work after I married in 1945. My full state pension is based on my husbands contributions and I have £10 from my late husbands company. I am not ashamed to claim Pension Credit because this country did nothing to help us when we left the Forces. Couldn't get on a housing list and were homeless. My husband served seven years and was wounded in the Normandy landings and as soon as he recovered was sent to,Palestine suffering what these days is called Post traumatic Stress. Although I didn't go out to work I made all of my and daughters clothes, grew all our veg and did all the painting and decorating and was a very active member of the Women's Institute. "poor but content is rich enough."

Maggie

It is 'equalised' income, so after tax and National Insurance Contributions, but before any benefits (monetary or in kind).

In other words, people are deemed not to be able to afford the 'basics' if they don't have that much cash in hand.

The figures from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation are higher than the government's own figures, so the government says people can live on less than those figures - and there are still four million people living on less.

Perhaps they were queueing up outside the food bank
Ana someone can see what was meant!
And then they went in and collected their food.
Of course, my dear, kind, lovely, generous, hardworking, honest relative could be a liar. Probably some posters think she must be because it doesn't fit in with what they are adamant is true. However, I think she sees the whole spectrum, those who are sad, addicted, deprived, in desperate need, and occasionally those working the system.

outside the doors, obviously no-one is allowed to smoke inside

Mothers with pushchairs waiting for free food whilst puffing away on their ciggies?
I only know what has been told to me by someone who works in a food bank.
Along with all the sad young people trying to get a job when there are few to be had in their area, the alcoholics who cannot get over their addiction, spend their money on alcohol but need food, plus the very generous people who have been known to fill a trolley full of food to donate when they don't look as if they have two pennies to rub together themselves, and the people known to my relative who send their children to private school, drive 4x4s and go out of the other door of Waitrose to avoid putting anything in her trolley when she is collecting on the 'supermarket run'.

Sorry, I only know a lot of things I know from RL not from links.
It takes all sorts.

I never tried cabbage sandwiches but have had cabbage soup.

Because people are standing in a queue outside a food bank it doesn't follow they are queuing for food, they may be accompanying someone who is. Many who need food banks also need support because it eases their embarrassment having to use the food banks ,

Eh? Don't know what you mean. Same with the Stepford reference.