Floods!

I seem to recall the council leader being told off by Cameron, who wanted his advisers to tell the leader how to do things properly without cutting services. Cameron was told off for this preferential treatment.
Haven't heard anything since that stand-off. Anyone living in Oxfordshire know anything?

Oh, just for once the chance to discuss a serious issue likes these floods, without it turning into a government-bashing exercise.

I really feel for these people as I too have been forced out of my home, albeit by a fire, and am living in rented accommodation with pets, and battling with insurance companies. It's a nightmare believe me.

Yes it's all too easy to blame the current government but remember that the b****y Tories have only been 'in power' since 2010. There is just as much s**t mud that needs to be flung at Labour for not maintaining and updating flood planning.

Could we please get off our political high horses because this goes absolutely nowhere.

I doubt whether any government of whatever political hue would have got this right. The change in the rainfall pattern has caught us all unawares. Sudden very heavy rainfall has not been the pattern and it is causing huge problems because of it falling very rapidly in large quantities on already saturated ground.

The government is going to have to join with the opposition parties to thrash out a long term strategy - and a lot of investment is going to be needed.

I really feel for those poor souls caught up in this. Their houses have become valueless so they cannot move away if they wished; and insurance will always be a problem.

Good post * Luckygirl* I totally agree.
Virtually the whole of the Thames Valley is built on a flood plain btw, so what's with all the Home Counties bashing along with Tory bashing?
Oxford got a new station because it badly needed another one,this area is where the jobs are, and where people live who commute into London.
Oxfordshire has had the same council cuts as anywhere else.It is not protected because Cameron has a 'seat' here.Nor are all the residents filthy rich, as I, AlieOxon, Shysal, Bohemian, FlicketyB and countless other Gnetters can confirm.

We are all surprised by the rain levels, but the EA has been urging more investment for years. They have modelled the changing weather patterns and this together with sea level rises causes real concern for the those responsible for defending our communities.
Lack of funding and staffing levels has seriously hindered the EA in its responsibility

It will be interesting to ask the question in 6 months time to see what if anything is being planned including extra funding

No it has not caught us unawares. Meteorologists have been warning politicians for a long time that more extreme weather would be coming due to increased warmth of our planet. And whether or not you think the burning of fossil fuels is to blame it's the warmest year on record for the second year running. The heating up of the Pacific has led to an el-Nino year. And we have never had an el-Nino combined with the low levels of Arctic sea ice that we now have.

www.iflscience.com/environment/watch-amazing-visualization-arctic-ice-over-last-25-years

When I was studying for my first degree in Environmental Science in the 60s WARM WET WINTERS were predicted even then. Jess is correct this is not new, scientists have known this was coming for a 'long time'.

The other predication that has been around a long time is the likelihood of the gulf stream failing in the N Atlantic which means we will move towards a climate like Newfoundland - so we should make the most of the mild weather
On the other side of the Atlantic in the US they are also having horrendous flooding and abnormal temperatures. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35196399

Sorry if this has already been said - the floods seem to be caused by a combination of things - a strong El Nino effect that has caused over 10,000 people to evacuate homes flooded to the roof in Paraguay, Argentina and Brazil; in the UK a farming policy of denuding the landscape to claim EU subsidy for set aside, which is only paid out for land with no trees - land on a hillside planted with trees absorbs 26 times that of bare land; building on flood plains - the tv showed several newish housing estates flooded, and planning permission is still being handed out for housing on flood plains; straightening and dredging that caused water to run away too fast until it hits a town with nowhere to go but up and over the sides .... . Whoever is in power the problems are caused by the desire for short term gain and to placate the voters, rather than common sense and long term stability.

The other predication that has been around a long time is the likelihood of the gulf stream failing in the N Atlantic which means we will move towards a climate like Newfoundland - so we should make the most of the mild weather
The Gulf Stream has been slowing up quite rapidly.

I did read somewhere that a rapid period of global warming could precede another ice age.

That's an interesting point re setaside land starbird. The S.O. and I were just saying we couldn't understand why more trees weren't being planted.

All for more trees planted but not in Wales please , we have rather a lot.

Pity the whole of the UK couldn't be a national park, that would stop building on set aside sites

Yes, an informed post starbird. There's more to flood management than most people realise. Straightening and deepening rivers is not always the answer. Under some circumstances dredging is the right thing to do, but not always - it is very complicated.

The old-style farmer and landowner knew their rivers, streams and ditches, and how to manage them, but this knowledge, handed down through the generations is being lost due to changes in farming, land ownership, etc.

Meanders, which created mini flood plains, slowed the flood water down and were a refuge for wild life, these have indeed been removed and streams 'straightened'. I witnessed such a project about 20 years ago where the stream was straightened to run alongside a new road and the reclaimed land used for housing. The road now floods regularly and it's just a matter of time and luck before the houses are inundated too.

Yes, the fells have always been used for grazing sheep, but not to the extent they are these days. Tree planting, absolutely essential, and the 'right' kind of trees too.... and so it goes on.

There are myriads of small 'fixes' that need to be addressed, in addition to the big ones and actual 'defences' - which is what I meant in my previous post about 'joined up thinking' - but it's simply not happening.

I so agree Anya. I have far less understanding of the complexities but from local issues see that nothing will be achieved by piecemeal actions. Some common sense would be good. As that seems to be in short supply I continue to despair

When I worked for a water company planning permission was granted for estates where the water pressure was too low (the houses too high up) to comply with our regulatory targets. Which annoyed us quite a bit. This despite the company objecting. There was no rule that said the planners had to comply with our advice.
If you want strict planning laws you have to have strong central rules that planners and councillors must abide by. Not devolving all planning decisions to local councillors to decide (which is current policy).
But of course you also have to have a government that can stand up to the powerful house building lobby who a/ may already have flood plan land in their portfolios. and b/ prefer to build on a nice flat site.

I am going to Oxfordshire to stay with friends in Cameron's Constituency over New Year. It is definitely a different world from the midland city where I live and certainly from the 'North' where I grew up. I have yet to see any immigrants around, apart from a few in Banbury , and even in Oxford there are far fewer than in my very multicultural city.
Admittedly some of the roads around the area leave a lot to be desired ,but in general the cuts seem non existent---- no homeless people sleeping in tents by the station as they are here at present. No wonder a friend of my friends remarked about this city-----well, someone's got to live there! They are very much cocooned in Cameron's part of Oxfordshire.

Not so, Trendygran and since you don't live here you don't know what cuts the council have made.There are many homeless people dossing down in Oxford City centre, and begging in the streets is commonplace, drug addicts , people with mental health problems, drunks, gypsies, you name it they are there begging.
Cameron lives quite a way north of Oxford, Chipping Norton, and that indeed is a different world, but is not south Oxfordshire.
You have to live somewhere to know all it's problems, not just a visit.

I live in Oxfordshire as well and I completely agree with rosesarered. One of the hostels for the homeless in Oxford is going to be closed as part of the councils cuts. There are plans to scrap all youth centres for the same reason. There are food banks in every town and at my church as well as collecting for the local food bank we also collect clothing and toiletries for a homeless hostel and rehabilitation centre in Oxford.

I find your remarks about immigrants offensive. It assumes both that immigrants are all a different colour to the British population so are immediately recognisable in the street and also disregards the fact that many of the people you see as 'visible' immigrants have in fact lived in this country for three or four generations and are as British as I am.

You also completely fail to take into account the millions of immigrants from the European Community who, because they are the same colour as the indigenous population do not stick out, or is your definition of immigrant limited only to those who are of visibly different ethnicity?

There are probably, pro rata, more immigrants in the south of England than any other region in the country because there are more jobs available for them. Oxfordshire is a centre for high tech industry and research. I live close to two large science research campuses (or should it be campae) dedicated to cutting edge science and research, many of the those working there are from countries all over the world, the creme de la creme of the world's technicians and scientists.

I might also add that the flooding has given us a very anxious Christmas. DS and family live in York, but while there house is well above the flood zone, DDil's sister lives on the flood plain. Her area has very effective flood protection, but with the water rising so high, the flood protection could be overwhelmed and she and her partner have moved everything they can upstairs and are hoping for the best.

One member of the family also works at Jorvik, which has been completely flooded, heaven knows when it will re-open

That's dd/sil lost their caravan - was in indoor storage but nearby river burst its banks and van is now sitting in 5' water.

MOnica and roses well said.
I did also think that with Oxford being a uni town that there must surely be a fairly large contingent of 'visible' immigrants and that it was strange to say there were hardly any.

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/data-and-resources/maps/census-map-uk-born-residents-other-eu-countries-2011

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12402284

This is a 2011 article, which mentions that projects in Leeds, Thirsk, York and Morpeth were put on hold.

No north/south divide?

Just read that Corbyn is due to visit York today.
I bet he talks to affected people.