Floods!

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/data-and-resources/maps/census-map-non-uk-born-share-population-england-and-wales-2011

Thanks for pointing that out to me Monica. That wasn't the one I clicked.
I was going to show you the non-uk born share of the population as you were arguing about where the number of immigrants was the greatest.
I thought a bit of real statistics was needed.
Obviously you will disagree with real statistics.
The reason the figures are 2011 is because they are the most up-to-date on immigration. Unless you know otherwise. The Migration Observatory seems to be believed by most statisticians.
By the way, if you had been interested enough to click on the link, you would have found this information within another two clicks.

Oh dear me no DJ how silly of us, we didn't know that we really are 'pink poodles'

titters girlishly and goes of to find latest copy of 'Hello'

www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/30/experts-criticise-george-osborne-over-flood-protection-funding

Anybody believe the experts? Probably not as it's an article from the Guardian.

I do not know if any of you have noticed, but the floods in York have affected Victorian and Edwardian houses, not just new build in floodplains.

It strikes me with situations like Anya's posted picture that is going around on F.B that local planning commitees should take some responsibility about such bad planning decisions.

The potential for local councillors, business interests etc to "unduly influence" such decisions etc,seems at times to hint at less than open and reputable practices. (To put it in such a manner that I am not claiming any potential corruption.)

Planning applications in my area have to be referred for a flood report - even those halfway up a sizeable hill.

anya absolutely - it is the responsibility of all agencies. However the point that I am making is - what message does 30% cuts year on year give out?

Exactly Elegran

The point many of us are making Whitewave is that this isn't just an issue for central government. Local authorities, be it country, district, town or parish, need to play their part. And, as I keep going on and on about, so do farmers and landowners (and here I include the NT, Forestry Commision, the Jockey Club and the like), government agencies, surveyors, estate agents, builders as well as Jo Public all need to pull together.

For example, when we bought out present house, the surveyors report included a section on flood risk. I don't know if this is usual these days but it ought to be mandatory that this is included in even a basic house survey.

Just a simple inclusion like that would give new buyers the chance to make an informed decision.

I do hope that photograph is framed and hung on the wall by the relevant planning authorities. If planning is granted for house building development anywhere, in the most unsuitable places, how can any government keep up with the need for flood control? It becomes a bottomless pit.

Taken to extremes, there would be housing built between high and low tide marks, and King Canute employed to command the waves to stay back.

I can remember this thread running when the Somerset levels and large parts of the country was flooded. The grans were concerned then that We must tackle what seemed a high likelihood that it would happen again, suggesting that perhaps, just perhaps cutting the flood defence budget was not a terribly sensib,e thing to do as it makes absolutely no economic sense whatsoever.

Since then the Environment Agency budget has been cut just under 30 percent each year as it had the years previous since 2010.

wonder what will happen now?

M0nica well said

.....and what good will that do them? I have more respect for the Conservative minister, Liz Truss, I think, who seems to have been on tv every day throughout the Christmas period visiting areas affected by the floods and, presumably has had little or no break from work over Christmas, unlike the head of the Environment Agency who didn't let a small matter of flooding and flood defences, a key part of his agencies work, come between him and his Christmas holiday in Barbados.

I do not quite get the point of your two links Durhamjen. The first is all about UK immigrants to other countries and anyway has no data on the Uk and the other dates back to 2011 and I believe the government has revised and increased the money going to flood alleviation since then.

Why does the fact that the cuts are all to northern projects mean a north south divide? As far as I can see most of the flooding in recent years, with the exception of the floods on the Somerset levels has been in the north of England so I presume that most of the expenditure on flood prevention is in the north. It is not possible to cut funding in the south if there is very little expenditure in the first place.

Certainly one of the reasons our family member in York in a flood threatened area has been saved from flooding is because there have been extensive improvements to the flood defences in her area since the last floods in 2000.

I am not a supporter of the Conservatives and I have never in my life voted for them but I do not believe in the excessive partisan attitudes that can see no good in any party they do not support. All parties, in government and out, do things that are excellent and others that are repellent.

Just read that Corbyn is due to visit York today.
I bet he talks to affected people.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12402284

This is a 2011 article, which mentions that projects in Leeds, Thirsk, York and Morpeth were put on hold.

No north/south divide?

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/data-and-resources/maps/census-map-uk-born-residents-other-eu-countries-2011

MOnica and roses well said.
I did also think that with Oxford being a uni town that there must surely be a fairly large contingent of 'visible' immigrants and that it was strange to say there were hardly any.

That's dd/sil lost their caravan - was in indoor storage but nearby river burst its banks and van is now sitting in 5' water.

I might also add that the flooding has given us a very anxious Christmas. DS and family live in York, but while there house is well above the flood zone, DDil's sister lives on the flood plain. Her area has very effective flood protection, but with the water rising so high, the flood protection could be overwhelmed and she and her partner have moved everything they can upstairs and are hoping for the best.

One member of the family also works at Jorvik, which has been completely flooded, heaven knows when it will re-open

I live in Oxfordshire as well and I completely agree with rosesarered. One of the hostels for the homeless in Oxford is going to be closed as part of the councils cuts. There are plans to scrap all youth centres for the same reason. There are food banks in every town and at my church as well as collecting for the local food bank we also collect clothing and toiletries for a homeless hostel and rehabilitation centre in Oxford.

I find your remarks about immigrants offensive. It assumes both that immigrants are all a different colour to the British population so are immediately recognisable in the street and also disregards the fact that many of the people you see as 'visible' immigrants have in fact lived in this country for three or four generations and are as British as I am.

You also completely fail to take into account the millions of immigrants from the European Community who, because they are the same colour as the indigenous population do not stick out, or is your definition of immigrant limited only to those who are of visibly different ethnicity?

There are probably, pro rata, more immigrants in the south of England than any other region in the country because there are more jobs available for them. Oxfordshire is a centre for high tech industry and research. I live close to two large science research campuses (or should it be campae) dedicated to cutting edge science and research, many of the those working there are from countries all over the world, the creme de la creme of the world's technicians and scientists.

Not so, Trendygran and since you don't live here you don't know what cuts the council have made.There are many homeless people dossing down in Oxford City centre, and begging in the streets is commonplace, drug addicts , people with mental health problems, drunks, gypsies, you name it they are there begging.
Cameron lives quite a way north of Oxford, Chipping Norton, and that indeed is a different world, but is not south Oxfordshire.
You have to live somewhere to know all it's problems, not just a visit.

I am going to Oxfordshire to stay with friends in Cameron's Constituency over New Year. It is definitely a different world from the midland city where I live and certainly from the 'North' where I grew up. I have yet to see any immigrants around, apart from a few in Banbury , and even in Oxford there are far fewer than in my very multicultural city.
Admittedly some of the roads around the area leave a lot to be desired ,but in general the cuts seem non existent---- no homeless people sleeping in tents by the station as they are here at present. No wonder a friend of my friends remarked about this city-----well, someone's got to live there! They are very much cocooned in Cameron's part of Oxfordshire.

When I worked for a water company planning permission was granted for estates where the water pressure was too low (the houses too high up) to comply with our regulatory targets. Which annoyed us quite a bit. This despite the company objecting. There was no rule that said the planners had to comply with our advice.
If you want strict planning laws you have to have strong central rules that planners and councillors must abide by. Not devolving all planning decisions to local councillors to decide (which is current policy).
But of course you also have to have a government that can stand up to the powerful house building lobby who a/ may already have flood plan land in their portfolios. and b/ prefer to build on a nice flat site.

I so agree Anya. I have far less understanding of the complexities but from local issues see that nothing will be achieved by piecemeal actions. Some common sense would be good. As that seems to be in short supply I continue to despair

Yes, an informed post starbird. There's more to flood management than most people realise. Straightening and deepening rivers is not always the answer. Under some circumstances dredging is the right thing to do, but not always - it is very complicated.

The old-style farmer and landowner knew their rivers, streams and ditches, and how to manage them, but this knowledge, handed down through the generations is being lost due to changes in farming, land ownership, etc.

Meanders, which created mini flood plains, slowed the flood water down and were a refuge for wild life, these have indeed been removed and streams 'straightened'. I witnessed such a project about 20 years ago where the stream was straightened to run alongside a new road and the reclaimed land used for housing. The road now floods regularly and it's just a matter of time and luck before the houses are inundated too.

Yes, the fells have always been used for grazing sheep, but not to the extent they are these days. Tree planting, absolutely essential, and the 'right' kind of trees too.... and so it goes on.

There are myriads of small 'fixes' that need to be addressed, in addition to the big ones and actual 'defences' - which is what I meant in my previous post about 'joined up thinking' - but it's simply not happening.

All for more trees planted but not in Wales please , we have rather a lot.

Pity the whole of the UK couldn't be a national park, that would stop building on set aside sites