Cannot believe this bigotry

I accept that there are a significant minority of extremist 'political' Muslims who promote violence against non Islamic cultures.

However the main reason all these people are removing themselves and families from the troubled regions is because they DO NOT support these extremist views!

Also it is not just the 'educated middle class' Muslims who disagree with the political Muslim extremists but many ,less financially secure, who are not able to flee and are having to suffer under the rule of of these thugs.

Re the housing crisis, lack of school places and the hard pressed NHS, it is easy to understand why some might feel we don't have enough resources to go round as it is.

And of course most of us are managing with less than we thought we'd have in our retirement and are having to help our children too. More and more people will never own their own house etc yet we are the lucky ones.

I think that we are all so fortunate because we are not having to flee from our homes because of war and mayhem,leaving everything we've worked hard for, homes, jobs etc. And we have never had to live for years in a refugee camp where there is no hope of a future for the younger generation.

I think we must help with relocation of refugees because they really need our help. We are a rich country in comparison with many and I believe it can be done sensitively so that people on housing lists aren't affected.

....but how to get this across to the bigots? That these people are no threat? Time and experience I suppose.

Syrians will be OK - they had a middle class culture there, and most people were educated, many highly educated. I have met two significant Syrians in my life: one was in Vienna when we were fellow students: he was first year medical, I was a language student. We went out together for a while. The second was the surgeon who successfully delivered my eldest son: it was an emergency cesarean with complications but he did it perfectly.

These are not people from the backwoods of nowhere - they re pretty much like the rest of us.

I certainly understand the fear and resentment that large numbers of people moving to Britain must cause some people: the local authorities must take this into account and try to house the Syrians with some thought and logic and consideration for locals in housing crises.

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thatbags those are my feelings also.

Meersbrook123 we cross posted, but I think I understand your position.

thatbags that's exactly the kind of thing that concerns me which is why I posted about feeling ignorant about the religious freedom v the law of the land. It's all very well fleeing a country because you are in fear of your life and that of your family's, but if you seek asylum in a country where your religious beliefs which are contrary to the law of that country, should you be granted refugee status? Most refugees are given limited leave to stay, not unlimited leave it, so I wonder what the review process involves. Do we try to measure the degree of integration? I am certainly aware of communities where women do not speak English, do not work outside the home, do not shop in the large supermarkets, etc., and this bothers me. When I taught English and IT in local community education classes, the women from Middle Eastern countries were all educated professionals - usually doctors with husbands who are doctors working in the UK. These women wanted to work as doctors in the UK, but needed to learn to speak English. What about all the other women who don't speak English?

I feel conflicted about this. I supported our multicultural society, but more needs to be done about integration.

I think some of you have not read my post very carefully. At no point did I say that we should not take any more refugees. Of course we should. Seeing what some of them have endured and the plight of the children is heartbreaking.
I can, unfortunately, always see both sides of an argument and I was simply pointing out that I understand why many people are apprehensive about the influx of more Muslims. I surely don't have to explain why. But because I can always see both sides doesn't mean to say that I don't favour one more than the other. This time I'm on the side of the refugees.

In many Muslim cultures freedom of expression is not allowed. People are killed for saying they do not have religious faith, or that they are gay. The freedom of many people, especially women, is non-existent. That for me is a terribly important cultural difference that worries me. That is not xenophobia. It's not the people I'm worried about but some of the ideas they have been brought up with. I see those as a potential threat to my Western European culture. Certain acts of violence against the Western world have done nothing but confirm this worry.

Anyone who 'translates' what I've said here as racism is just being silly.

What is 'our British way of life'? petra? Do you mean your particular style of Britishness?

I really believe that if we look at the values of people who are of 'indigenous' white British heritage across the country we would find equally as much diversity of values/ tradition/ way of life as you would find between Caribbean/African/Asian/Middle Eastern/ Australian/ S African/ New Zealand British citizens!

My mother brought up in a working class home in the NE and my MiL brought up in working class area of Sth London had very different ways of life! If one had been from a wealthier home it would be different again!

Meersbrook123. Thank you for that. Unfortunately we have too many people who would rather worship at the shrine of diversity than protect our British way of life and values.

what on earth is a snob, in this context anyhow? I know many people who are really against the idea of welcoming refugees- and they come in all guises, socially speaking- even the 'middle'. Although, thinking about it some more, the only ones with empathy re the refugees, all belong to the middle, none on either extremes (politically, financially or socially).

No GG I'm not saying that but by constantly blaming the govt and media you are missing a key point.

There are snobs and snobs, and it is not always the working class that they look down on.

I fear some on here are snobs.Working class,my Asspidestra,

They have Jane10 but before the media single people or groups have always tried to use fear to manipulate others (think witch-doctors). The media is just another step along the way. Surely you are not saying none of the media whips this feeling up?

People have always felt fear or apprehension about incomers to an established locale. That's long before the media or even governments existed gracesgran. Its just human. People who are different have always been viewed with suspicion.

I think Jen that people do feel like this, often because the Conservatives and the right wing press encourage a sense of fear. What Corbyn is offering is hope but, as you will know, someone who is fearful finds it hard to hope so those of us who want others to be able to see it have to offer it in a very palatable way. My worry is that otherwise people will cling to the party that offers them the appearance of protection from a fear that need not be anywhere near so deep. There is a battle between hope and fear but hope must be understanding of the fear.

I think Meersbrook123 was just being honest and her thoughts and feelings are as valid as anyone else's. I don't think anyone believes resettling refugees is an easy time.

I agree with what the German politian said, but it won't be as straightforward as she makes out in naming the 4 'tests'.

There's the sticky issue of religious freedom. My biggest problem with Islam is the current interpretation and acceptance of restrictions on women in society by probably the majority of Muslims. Some immigrants emigrate to be able to practice their religion in safety. But when some of their beliefs are against the law of the land, what is to be done? In EU countries we talk about equal opportunities and have legislation to try and stop unfairness. How do we enforce legislation that conflicts with someone's religious beliefs? Many refugees are Christian, but many are not.

Personally, I believe if someone chooses to come and live in the UK, the law of the land should prevail. However, I feel ignorant about this subject, so would be interested in knowing what others think.

I read Meerbrook123's post as expressing understanding of those who feel frightened by the crisis, jen.
That doesn't mean that he or she can't empathise with the refugees as well - the two are not mutually exclusive.
To be able to see both sides is good - there was no need for you to be so curt.

I expected some empathy, with her family having been in a similar situation.

I think the comments about Meersbrook123's post were a bit harsh as she was trying to be honest about how she feels. I do think there is reason to say that we may not have done those immigrating to the UK in recent years any favours by not encouraging them to integrate more. It's a hugely difficult problem of course because people naturally want to live in communities that provide a support structure and familiarity but those larger "other" communities can also create fear in some.

Thank you Penstemmon.
Funnily enough I didn't. Is that because I don't share EthelTbags's sense of humour, or just better bladder control, I wonder.

Etheltbags Hello, mojo!