Cannot believe this bigotry

Re population density. One of the problems is that the UK may be well down the list, but this is because Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are not densely populated. England is. At the start of 2014 it was, with 413 people per square kilometre, second only to Malta in the EU, and the trend is upwards. Some people are understandably worried about this. It's no comfort to know that there were only 68 people per square km in Scotland, 135 in NI and 149 in Wales.

Thank you Gill, you put it much better than I could. I feel dreadfully sorry for all of them, but I don't see that bringing them here, then putting whole families in one room B &B accommodation is going to help all that much. More help where they started from, and saving them the traumas of travelling across continents seems a much better idea to me. I do get a bit tired of it always being "the Big Bad West's" fault for everything. If we don' t take action we are condemned for indifference and if we do we are interfering. Damned if we do, and damned if we don't.

The only way to solve the problem properly is to make their own countries a better place to live.That won't be done,especially as half the young men are leaving to escape conscription.I feel for them,of course I do.BUT,we can't accommodate them all,a few thousand could be the straw that breaks the camels back.Also,there has got to be a reason the governments are not doing anything to sort out their country.Yes it's fear with me,fear my grandchildren will not be able to do the simple things we now take for granted.Not racism,not bigotry.

Mamark, what are these simple things you fear your grandchildren will not do?

Same question, please? Our grndchildren will never be able to do what I did as a kid, go out to the woods with a flask of water and a pocket knife to built a hut - but this has little to do with immigration.

The woods and parks,because of overpopulation,will be the privilege of the few.Freedom will be gone,education and healthcare will depend on how much money you can pay.Its almost like it now,you have to be careful not to offend someone,even when you didn't know you were offending.

Anyway,you don't need me to tell you that.You must know,if you live in the same world as me.

Not sure where you live- but very few places in the UK are overcrowded actually. From East Leicestershire where I lived, we could drive all the way to the sea on the East Coast, and apart from by-passing Peterborough, not pass any towns and mile upon mile of countryside. Huge swaves are empty all over the UK. Again not being flippant- but the UK is not over-populated- just some parts, and very little is inhabitable (unlike my country covered with moutains and lakes).

I'm sure you mean 'uninhabitable', granjura, but even so, where's the money going to come from to build housing/provide schools/ensure medical treatment for all? The UK's infrastructure is creaking and cracking a the seams already.

mariann I'm on FB but I have not seen this on my page, it wouldn't come up automatically unless you look for it.

The trouble is with this sort of bigotry out in the social media, that pragmatism, worrying about the practicalities, is in danger of being thought of as a form of bigotry.

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Exactly, rosequartz, or certainly a 'lack of compassion'.

Ana, thanks for the correction. As you know, English is not my language, and 6 years out of the UK are taking their toll!

Totally agree about housing and infrastructure- but space is not the problem, but the political will. It's a choice. Germany and France have a very fast aging population, immigration well done could be the boost they require. We need active and productive youngsters to pay taxes (oh and our pensions too ;) DH and myself are on UK pensions only btw).

It's all going to be fine, Ana, they have plans to emotionally support elderly folks to downsize. There will be plenty of houses available.
(Goodness knows where we'll go, though.)

Someone needs to think of the practicalities, and the repercussions from some quarters if housing becomes suddenly available.

#everthepragmatist

Two weeks ago,unfortunately,my husband was very poorly and admitted to hospital.He spent the first 8 hours sat in the corridor on a hard chair.When I told the consultant this,He said" don't believe anything to the contrary,the health service is a very bad way.Now I don't know why that is,and I'm not blaming it on immigration.But,it's a fact.

I am so sorry you went through this- but the NHS is in a bad way because the UK chooses to spend much less of its GDP on health care, and education- than other countries. That is a political decision, not the fault of the immigrants, really.

Hope he is much better now, take care.

Thank you,Granjura.Hes not in very good health,but he is better than he was then.It was in fact a urine infection,sounds trivial,but he was very poorly.They kept him in for 5 days.

I'm sorry but I think this sort of talk is alarmist and completely misrepresents the situation in Britain and in particular the claims that England is heading for a "standing room only" situation. You only have to fly over England to see how much open space there is but if you feel that is a simplistic and inaccurate argument - this was reported in The Huffington Post, City AM and other publications in 2013:

"With developers struggling to build enough houses in Britain to keep up with demand, Inside Housing blogger Colin Wiles estimated that England's golf courses take up 270,000 hectares, roughly equating to 2% of its 13.4 million hectares in land area........

"English golf courses use an amount of land that is equivalent to one fifth of England’s total built up area (10% of England is built upon) and could provide at least eight million homes," he wrote.

"Official figures from the UK's National Ecosystem Assessment indicate that around 10% of England's land is classified as urban, with most of it taken up by gardens, parks, roads and lakes. Just 2.27% of that is built upon and only 1.1% of it is used for homes.

There is, of course, the issue of health, education, transport and housing provision which is a concern to everybody. My feeling is that if these basic human needs were treated as a top priority of governments there wouldn't be a problem. People then say, "well, where's the money coming from?"

The Sunday Times Rich List, published in April 2015, shows the richest individuals to be:

Len Blavatnik £13.17 billion
Hinduja Brothers £13 billion
Galen and George Weston £11 billion
Alisher Usmanov £9.8 billion
Lakshmi Mittal £9.2 billion

It was reported that the collective wealth of Britain's richest people has more than doubled in the last ten years. A very different story from that of the average working person.

I don't know what their tax status is or how much tax they pay, but the top rate of tax, regardless of level of wealth, is 45%, the Conservatives having reduced the top rate from 50%.

Hope he has recovered with the right treatment Marmark1

Thanks for those edifying figures Eloethan- really puts things in perspective.

Now, I am aware that the next comment may well not be well received. But in countries like Switzerland, most people live in flats- because everyone wanting to live in a house with a private garden, takes up massive amounts of land- and would et up all the countryside and rural land. Many of the UK's large cities are much much larger than other towns in Europe - not because of the size of the population, but the type of housing used. I live in a very large old house with quite a bit of land, so who am I to talki- but I chose to live out in the sticks where there is plenty of space. A choice.

Thank you,Rosequartz.

Was on the news tonight that just under 67,000 families homeless in UK. 100,000 children homeless. How popular will the prospect of 20,000 refugees seem to those people? Not being bigoted. Its a dreadful situation all round.

Actually that's just England. There's a lot of homelessness in Scotland too.

I don't have a problem with local people saying resources are already at breaking point because it's probably the truth. I do have a problem with people saying refugees are not welcome in the area. There will be many people willing to help in different ways and I think this could be one of the ways communities can help. Instead of allocating scarce social housing properties, local authorities should be allowed to fund the cost of families in a range of accommodation as they do now? Queue jumping will just cause bad feeling and a decent roof over their heads is the most important thing in the early stages. Ease the refugees into the community.