Refugees

Joelsnan. Don't stop waffling. I love it.
I try to read as much as I can take in on this subject, but it does get a bit heavy and wanders off into all different areas. You simplify it for my ignorant brain.

Doesn't that mean, though that is all the Shiites populate more and more of Europe they will want to eradicate Protestants and Catholics; this is my big fear even though I do want these people to be helped . It really scares me.

No please don't, it is all very interesting Joelsnan

We meddle in what we don't understand, don't we.

Have you done a PhD on it joelsnan?

NfkDumpling
ISIS and Al Qaeda were spawned from the Wahabi sect in Saudi Arabia which is a part of the Sunni Muslim sect. There are millions of Sunni Muslims within Syria. One of the main objectives of Sunni Muslims is to eradicate the Shiite Muslims who they consider as non believers due to a difference in belief of who legitimately succeeded the prophet Mohammed. Therefore there are millions of Sunni Muslims within Syria who align with ISIS and Al Qaeda, maybe without the extreme intent, but they also aspire to a Shiite free Syria.
There are millions of Shiite Muslims in Syria. Iran is a Shiite Muslim country so has been supporting the Shi'ites and their sub sects in their desire to exist in Syria, most would prefer the Sunnis to go to Saudi, however ISIS have now taken the game to another level which even Saudia Arabia is not fully in agreement with as this would mean Saudi losing some of its influence. ISIS want to recreate the caliphate, similar to the Ottoman Empire and this caliphate would consis of only Sunni Muslims. Sunni Muslims want a caliphate, but the Saudis want control to be from Saudi Arabia whereas ISIS are trying to control from within Iraq, so Saudi, along with other Arabian countries are now also trying to eradicate ISIS.
The nature of Islam means that you believe what you are told with your entire existence so each sect of Islam totally believes that their truth is the only truth and those who don't believe should not exist and eventually the largest group will prevail. I suppose we have this within the Christian faith with Catholics and Protestants.
Rosequartz
As the population of Syria is not one single mass, the Sunnis will be happy with Al Qaeda as their belief system is the same. We can see from those UK Sunni Muslims of Pakistani descent who have gone to or strive to reach Syria, that although not openly expressed, the desire for a caliphate is embedded within every practicing Muslim.
I am going to try and stop waffling now!

A picture went viral on FB, purporting to show refugees with ISIS flags attacking German police. This is a lie, using an old picture of Asians protesting against a right wing rally. The flags have not been identified as ISIS.

this is the truth and should also go viral.

Will they put up fences or build walls to divide the different sectarian areas?

What about the area controlled by Al Qaeda? Will the population be happy there?

So where does IS fit in Joelsnan? When everyone has migrated to where they'll be safest, will they continue to fight for their extreme beliefs? Or will the Saudi's squash them when they've done their dirty work for them and gained them a foothold in that region.

Jeremy Bowen still seems to be in Damascus, djen reporting for the BBC

Brave man

As reported tonight: Parts look fine (edgy but intact) but another area not far from the centre is being raided by government forces and people killed - because they could be supporting terrorists.
Then a little child was shown on a hospital bed, covered in blood, not more than 18 months old.
A 'supporter of terrorists', or 'just collateral damage', I suppose?

You are right, joelsnan about the west not understanding that 'our way' is not always best for other countries and interfering, not usually with a good outcome.

I meant Damascus looks alright on the news...

Syria will have to be rebuilt if this ever ends.

But the war is ongoing. Less and less of Syria remains standing. I know Syria looks ok on the news when they are speaking to "our man in", but the fighting has got pretty close on occasion.

theconversation.com/the-international-media-is-failing-to-report-the-syrian-war-properly-37290

Good post Joelsnan.

Some towns in Syria are not much more than rubble, but others are intact and functioning.Damascus looks totally normal( where Assad is,)

The solution is already underway with the partitioning of the country along sectarian lines. The government supported sector of mainly Shi'ites supported by Iran, Hezbollah and Russia, ISIL/Sunni region supported by Saudi Arabia and other Sunni Muslim Gulf states and the Kurdish region. Relative peace will only result when each individual migrates to the respective area of the country that represents either their religion or ideology. It will take time though and hopefully will be done without western intervention because the Arab region blames UK for much of the regional problems due to previous imposed partitions or 'carve ups (Gertrude Bell et al of Arabia).
I wish I had a viable solution.

More words, or talking, as Corbyn would say.
Pleased he's asked Yvette Cooper to continue with the work she was doing on refugees.

I think that's the problem - there is no solution.

Well, after all those words, what is your solution?

jinglebellsfrocks
There are two hypothesis on what started the current uprising, yes one is the imprisonment of youths who had painted anti regime graffiti resulting in the death of one and the perpetrators of the death not being punished. The second hypothesis is the attempt at an Arab Spring uprising by a section of the community.
What many in the west often seem to do is to transpose our ideals onto an alien nation and fail to recognise that their culture and sensitivities are, in many instances very different to our own. We are pluralistic, they are paternalistic, we are generally inclusive, the are generally sectarian, we are on the whole passive where in many instances they are combative. Slaughtering goats on street corners as a religious sacrifice is still the norm by what would on the surface would appear to be a modern society, many in the west would consider this abhorrent.
I doubt whether Syria could be democratic due to all of the sectarianism.
Duramjen
Was the whole of the UK considered a war zone during WW2? There are already many displaced Syrians in different safe regions of the country being supported by NGO's and funded by the UK and USA and others.
It has to be acknowledged that Syrians are not one single body of suppressed people they are multi religious, multi sectarian and each sect has a dislike and prejudice towards each other, this is what the Assad regime was keeping the stopper on.
I feel sad for the Syrians. I feel sad that we in the west think we can solve their problems, because our way us the best and by bringing them here they will lose their sectarianism and prejudices and will conform to our 'Christian' based ideologies and will become good little Syrians. Those migrating now cannot be fleeing the Assad regime. If this were the case they would have fled when the regime was at its strongest, these are mutisectarian migrants fleeing multi sectarian infighting, Sunnis fleeing Shi'ites, Christians fleeing any Muslim sect, Kurds fighting for their own country etc.etc. This conflict is not generalised throughout the country and there are large areas without conflict just as there were safe places in the UK.

Perhaps the coverage we see in the UK is not known in Germany, a ridiculous thought but we cannot be expected not to question/debate Margret X.

I have asked questions having watched Merkel on our screens, also Thomas de Maizier, the German Interior Minister. My questions have been asked on factual occurrences .

Nobody has split hairs .

I have reread the last two pages of posts and I did not find there has been any cause for your penultimate paragraph.

I hope Margaret continues to contribute as having a point of view from Germany has been useful.

Well, I hope so too, but we are all entitled to state our point of view -
Aren't we? And question someone if we see things from a different perspective?

We get a frequent update from a German point of view from DH's friend whose German family is over there.
Not all are happy with Merkel.

Amongst the refugees that are in Germany, 40% of them apparently, alledgedly are from the Balkans and are being returned.[I think I heard the 40% on a news report.]
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/11790915/Germany-warns-Balkans-migrants-of-deportation.html

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-26116868

I really cannot see which parts of Syria could be safe for Syrians.
If they are not being bombed by the US, they are being gased by Assad.
Only 30% of the buildings are left standing in many of the cities.