Refugees

I don't honestly mind who brokers any kind of peace but that's what's needed

By the sounds of it, from what Joelsnan says, it is much more far-reaching than a conflict in the Middle East, which is what I have heard before.
I'm not sure that I think the religious dimension is secondary to the economic control - I would think that economic control is a means to an end - religious control.

Maybe we need to talk with the present regime, minus Assad. (I know that won't help defeat IS)

Great news everyone -Saudi Arabia have kindly offered to fund 5 new mosques in Germany. So kind of them!

Sorry again Jinglebellsfrocks, you can research this quite easily on the Internet.

Jiglebellsfrocks
The translation of Al Qaeda is 'the Base' it appears there is no real organisation called Al Qaeda just a number of jihadist sects aligning to the same principals, so yes Al Qaeda remains, but because it is a fragmented conglomerate, ISIS has come through due to the fact that it is more organised.
This is the problem when people say we must talk. Who do we talk to?
Also, there is little or no reasoning with people with such strongly ingrained beliefs.

The bulk of the refugees from Syria simply want a civilised and safe life. They will not be bringing prejudices with them.

I'm not excusing them btw! No way.

I'm not sure how you can know that. They are religious fanatics.

Jinglebellsfrocks
Yes, these countries will continue to be Muslim countries, run on strict Islamic Sharia lines, however the religious dimension to this conflict is secondary to the main economic control or strangulation of the West by control of oil and gas.

"This multicultural/sectarian tension may now be being stocked within the west, people do not loose their prejudices by moving location"
Exactly why I don't want these people in the UK.
I know many of you mean well. But believe me, when you see what is going to happen in Germany in the not too distant future you will be very grateful for that 22 miles of water that keeps us safe.

IS are just getting a hold wherever they can now. And they are in cahoots with Al Quaeda, who have not gone away. That's why it's such a mess.

The West had lost it's taste for war by the time Syria kicked off. Unsurprisingly.

It started because of cruel response by gov forces to demonstrators against the state. If the West had armed those first rebels it might have all been over fairly quickly as happened in other states.

You took me seriously, petra?
I'd better stop joking about bombing and SAS. You never know who else is reading this.
The first Gulf war, the plane that stopped in Kuwait and handed over all those human shields to Saddam only did so because there were SAS on board.
I'd rather the SAS were not under the command of the US.

Interesting joelsnan. Any idea what could best be done?

You can't say it's not religious with IS! They don't believe anything before the time of Mohammed should exist. Look what they're doing to the museums.

What we need to understand with the Middle East is the 'bigger picture' as defined by Osama Bin Laden and picked up and run with by ISIS. The plan is to topple each of the countries within the Middle East one by one to create the Caliphate. This action is not for religious reasons, but to control the vast oil and gas reserves that these countries hold, in doing this they can control and basically cripple the economies of the West. The UK gets much of its oil and liquid gas from this region.
The terrorist attacks threatened and carried out in the west are probably diversionary tactics whilst their main objective carries on.
This is why western governments are striving to find alternative power sources ASAP.
Those who travel to Syria for religious jihad are being misguided, the fight by ISIS is nothing more than economic control by the Sunni Muslim extremists. One saving grace may be the tribal and sectarianism of the region.
ISIS did not start the problem in Syria, this started by one of two hypothesised issues (over zealous military or push for social reforms), however to the dismay of many Syrians, they paved the way for ISIS, who were already in Iraq to move in and so began their caliphate bid.
If ISIS is defeated it may reduce the global risk, but some other fanatics may pick up the baton as ISIS did with Al Qaeda, and the internal conflict within these countries aside from the ISIS fight will probably continue due to multi-sectarianism within the region. This multicultural/sectarian tension may now be being stoked within the west, people do not lose their prejudices by moving locations.

durhamjen. I can't believe, with all the reading you do, that you don't know the SAS are in there. They are under the command of the Americans.
They were very involved in the killing of that high profile isis commander.
The one that arranges (that would be arranged lol) all the oil sales.

If they don't want to fight eloethan, why should they have to fight for anyone? If they stayed they would be conscripted by the Assad regime. Who would want to do that.

And I do know know my history thank you.

I meant after the war Iam64. When we knew what the Nazis were capable of. Just as we know what the IS is capable of.

harrigran Nobody on Gransnet has yet defined who these fleeing young men should be fighting for or against.

I simply can't bear it.

I've just been watching the chaotic scenes at the railway station on the Croatian border. Hundreds of young men trying to board a train and some of them carrying young babies in front of them. Not a woman in sight. Where are the mothers????

There were also scenes the other day of men holding their babies and toddlers above their heads in the hopes of getting to the front of the queue. Some of the children were screaming in terror.

They may be desperate but I can't feel much sympathy for a man who uses his terrified child to gain an advantage.

jingle - our abdicated king did make friends with the Nazis and our government tried to appease them. it think invading Poland tipped the attempts at negotiation or appeasement into the water, so to speak and WW2 followed.

I apologise if I've offended anyone. This subject is just so difficult isn't it. I understand why it becomes polarised (here on gransnet) but I do so wish some kind of international efforts could be made out there in the RW. I don't honestly mind who brokers any kind of peace but that's what's needed. By the way - there seem to be suggestions on this thread that refugees can't be sent to Eastern European countries because of racism ( petra ) and that the racism in the Eastern European countries is down to the lack of jobs for people in eastern europe (durhamjen).
I don't want to add fuel to the fire here, but my earlier impressions have been that petra takes a position slightly to the right of durhamjen. I do hope that out there in the RW some political or diplomatic efforts can be made to bring a semblance of 'normality' back to Syria so that not all their educated, able people flee.

Would we have wanted to make friends with the Nazis?