This made me CROSS (shouty capitals)

The stoning, hanging and beheading goes on today. Not in this country, thank God, though if some had their way, they might.

I do think that there are some good values in Islam and to condemn a whole religion because of the actions of a few extremists is wrong. There is a great emphasis on charity, some of which is a compulsory part, some a voluntary one. There is a great sense of community and providing for members of the community. One problem is the things we see which bother us, the niquab, the segregation, the subservience of women are the obvious and widely publicised face of Islam. The other things remain hidden.

I think we should consider the religions only as they are today, not as they have been way back in history. Islamism has had quite long enough to grow up.

No one expected the Spanish Inquisition Jane 10 did they?
I think you make a very good point when you say we should include the word " some".

Stansgran
My mini iPad does its own thing too with lots of spellings

Don't forget the Spanish Inquisition! Seriously though the fervent early Christian missionaries were pretty sure they were right and anyone else was wrong! Even within Christianity people were killed for being of the "wrong" denomination. The Crusades weren't exactly our finest hour either. I did like a comment posted earlier about people/nationalities developing and changing ideologies at different times.
Everything said about Christians and Muslims is true but should perhaps be qualified the word "some"- eg some Muslims insist on women wearing niqab/hijab (but many do not) some Christians wont work on Sundays (but many do) etc. We should be wary of damaging sweeping statements.
However, despite all that, it does seem that we Brits are too polite to point out openly that some Muslims appear to want to remain absolutely separate from us and to refuse to take on British values. They seem happy to take advantage of our freedom of speech to denigrate our values.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/saudi-arabia-is-teaching-isis-a-lesson-in-cruelty-yet-the-uk-continues-to-defend-them-10324161.html

Have you read this, stansgran? Can you explain why the British government thinks Bawadi's punishment is okay?

My passport ran out in 2003. I do not think I am likely to renew it just to go to Saudi, Stansgran.
I hope you have signed his wife's petition to stop the punishment.

trc.taboola.com/eslmedia-theindependent/log/3/click?pi=%2Fvoices%2Feditorials%2Fcollective-punishment-david-camerons-remarks-about-muslims-condoning-isiss-horrors-will-antagonise-those-whose-support-he-needs-10332968.html&ri=f265edd45a81bac60e91eea8ca10d315&sd=v2_4fa9611b84a1cfe160b0cc940ca9aac7_1539256c-62a8-4b6a-9be9-af6279f9ce7d_1434794525_1434795015_CG4Qr5Y-&ui=1539256c-62a8-4b6a-9be9-af6279f9ce7d&it=text&ii=1243238591615928768&pt=text&li=rbox-t2m&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fvoices%2Fcomment%2Ffor-british-muslim-women-isis-may-offer-freedom-10329930.html&vi=1434795016477&r=6

2 articles from the i about isis. Hope the link works. I did not expect it to look like this.

Soutra, am glad that I didn't hear the DC speech and the phone in, because I shout at the radio as well ( truly a sign of aging, as I never used to.)All Muslim communities have to put their own house in order before they cry 'victim' to the rest of us.I think I am also getting tired of the word community as well, most of them have been here long enough not to need one.

SPELL

But Soutra did they kill or simply try to convert? History is important but nowadays we have access to so much more information and should be able to rise above what happened so long ago surely?

I would be happy to have a religious discussion with someone from any other faith, and have done so, but it is very difficult with some Muslims. I had a perfectly sensible discussion with a Muslim boss where we agreed to disagree but the same discussion with the aforementioned Muslim woman ended up in me being abused and accused of all sorts of things. Once again I felt that she had no listened to what I said but predecided (is that a word?) what I thought. Many Muslims have done the same abotu what DC said yesterday.

Thanks Loopy . 'Twas the only the only Arab town I could spill this morning. I have trouble with Rihyad /Rhiad and iPad won't help.

Oh Nonnie only think back to the well-meaning Christian missionaries of history.
They were equally convinced theirs was the only true religion and that it was their sacred mission to "convert the heathen" at all costs.

What I don't like about some Muslims is their certainty that the rest of us are WRONG. If we are not for them we must be against them. I don't think any other religion feels like that. Why must we be punished for not believing what they believe? I know one Muslim very well and she picks and chooses which bits she wants from Islam and ignores the rest which is fine by me but there is absolutely no doubt that if anyone disagrees with her on any subject they are WRONG! It is her way or not way. On the other hand my dentist is a devout Muslim and we have discussed religion openly and calmly without falling out. (and he hasn't done anything bad to my teeth)

I recently read that 85% of people who wear the niqab to job interviews doen't get the job and that it is not fair! Well I want to see the face of the person I am interviewing.

Dubai Stansgran ?
The link is about Saudi Arabia, not the UAE. I've been to Dubai and it's perfectly safe albeit a bit like Las Vegas on speed!

UAE is nothing like Saudi.

Apparently 'getting back out' is virtually impossible for those who join IS. A report I read recently said they would kill those trying to leave because of the knowledge they hold about IS.
So it's highly unlikely they'll come back, let alone begging GB for assistance

When things go 'belly up' for them I doubt Isis will allow them to leave.

For Durhamjen
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-33039815
Don't ever go to Dubai as you may find yourself in this predicament

I do wish those who go to "fight " for ISIS would have their passports refused because as sure as eggs are eggs when things go belly up for them they will be demanding the help of the uk to feed clothe and repair them in perpetuity.

"Love me" was not a Cockney exclamation, but should have read LIKE. !!!
#whatismyipadonthismorning.

Not necessarily disagreeing thatbags but what is society if not the aggregation of individuals. Thus parents are part of society and of a community. The exclusivity of some communities bothers me. Nobody asks the opinion of the Guardian-reading teaching community or the Telegraph reading farming community (stereotyping, I know ) because we and they are not an enclosed group to the exclusion of others. But unless the leaders of ethnic and religious "communities" are prepared to take responsibility for what is promulgated in their name they cannot demand special consideration. You are either "in" society or you are not.
The UK has had immigrant groups since I don't know when and some of them still do not integrate (some Orthodox Jewish groups for instance love me the one that won't let women drive their children to school) but what has enriched our society has been the admixture of cultures. Sadly I feel the more "orthodox" Muslim groups have become more polarised and insular, keeping themselves to themselves. Perhaps their insularity, particularly as it affects the women oin their community has played its part in their women and girls going to Syria to join ISIL.

People have to take responsibility for themselves, and that goes for young and old. (though obviously not children)

I agree with you Joan about Islamism, although when I said similar on here it was deleted.

No way is society to blame for this lot Bags. It is totally down to the selfish, stupid, irresponsible women themselves. If they are ever brought back they should be done for child abuse.

Who is blaming society for that? It is very much down to the parents if you ask me.

I find it interesting (I was going to say amusing but decided it was weird amusement) that if a parent feeds its child salty or sugary snacks, the parent is blamed but if a parent takes its child unnecessarily into a war zone society is blamed. Funny that