Refusing to sign PoA

My uncle had failed to get my aunt to sign a PoA before she became incapable. He had to go through the Court of Protection to be able to handle her financial affairs. So he gave me PoA for himself which I never needed to activate because he died a week after my aunt without ever losing his faculties. Executing his will involved 20 beneficiaries!

Twenty years ago after my mother died we did a LPA for my father - he was happy about this as up to then my Mother had been able to deal with things and he just signed etc as was necessary and I did the going into the bank/BS /Council offices.
This idea came entirely from my sister and she in fact wanted to be with one with the power - I had great reservations about this and when we were going to the solicitor's appointment she insisted my son came with us 'as a witness'. This sort of backfired as he said he thought we that both my sister and I should need to sign any paperwork. As events transpired we did not need to invoke this Power as he died three weeks after my mother but my reservations about her being the only one were proved correct as we discovered when it came to sorting things out - even though the will was very clear and precise.

We sent for the form pack, so that we could read through the guide, it is worth doing even if you apply on line. The forms seem worse than they are as many of the sections are irrelevant for many people.
I am repeating myself, but I cannot praise the help line highly enough.

If there are others like me who live in rural areas without good broadband, you can also ring up and get paper forms sent. They look long and daunting but really are not and as otjers have said the telephone help line is ver good. Answered quickly and by a real person!

I have done these for my parents, both financial and welfare ones and never needed a solicitor.

Doing it on line would make it much easier and, as you said Pompa much cheaper. Thank you for the explanation.

I've just done our LPA x 4 online (this week), encouraged by earlier threads about it and comments e.g. (I think it was pompa) who said "easy peasy".

And indeed it was.

The registration fee is £110 per LPA, but as MRs P only has her state pension she got a 50% reduction for each on.
We completed and registered both Financial and Property for each of us. (4 LPA's)

The online process was quite simple, you are guided through each section relevant to you (sections that become irrelevant due to your answers are not offered).
It costs nothing to prepare and print the LPA's. You can then check them (the longest part for us), get them signed in the order of the check list printed with the LPA's (you do not need any professional signatories, only people that have known you for a while)

Only once you have everything checked, signed etc and are ready to register do you have to pay, all of which can be done on line. It took about 9 weeks to get the registered LPA's back. You can register at any time, but IMO it is better done sooner than later.

During the preparation stage, if you decide it is too complicated (which I'm sure you won't} you can cancel everything and it will cost nothing, so well worth a try. The phone help line is also very good and friendly)

You get a year between starting the online application until you have to have all the signatures, so plenty of time, if, as in our case your attorneys do not live locally.

If I can help, PM me.

I didn't know that Pompa. Really useful as it is expensive to use a solicitor. Did you do both for that price or was it just the financial one if I may ask?

Another advantage to setting up a LPA early is that you can do it yourself easily on-line at the Gov web site. It will still cost you to register the LPA but only a fraction of what a solicitor will charge. We did ours a few months ago, the 4 LPA's cost £330 to register on-line. Our solicitor quoted us £1200 plus the £330 registration fee.

www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/make-lasting-power

I know of 2 elderly people who refused to sign PoAs because they were frightened and did not trust their children. In both case, 1 of the adult children had been putting a lot of pressure on them to give them their money 'now' and not have to wait until inheritance- quite forcefully and repeatedly. Perhaps this has happened in the past with one of the sibblings in the family.

Thank you all for the explanations. I do not know her father so I am not sure about his true mental capacity. The reason she raised it with him was because the discharge nurse and OT both asked her about it.

Hilda and gracesgran are correct. If there is any suggestion that the person setting up the PoA is not mentally competent, the solicitor cannot do it.
When mrA and I set our (lasting)PoAs up, the solicitor satisfied himself that we were competent by asking us who the Prime Minister was in 1832.
Of course as inhabitants of Newcastle, we knew that it was Charles, Earl Grey.
littleflo your friend also needs to understand that there's a difference between ordinary PoA and a lasting one. An ordinary one could be used just while he was in hospital, to allow your friend to pay bills etc.
I think a solicitor might give more useful advice than a GP, actually. If your friend's father is losing his faculties, it could be difficult if he can't manage his affairs if a lasting PoA isn't in place.
Applying to the Court of Protection in those circumstances would lead to delays.
A solicitor might be able to reassure the father about the safeguards that are built n to the system.

Yes Gracesgran is correct the time for a person to set up a PoA is when they still feel fully competent. Its almost a bit too late for someone else to impose it upon them once they are beginning to have problems.

MiniMouse with the new PoA you do not take over when the person looses mental capacity in the way the you did. I think the idea that the old PoA gave, almost saying you must be ga-ga or no one would be suggesting it is what often upsets the elderly. Perhaps if the friend gets some literature explaining the change it would help the father decide. It is his decision of course. I know our first use was just so I could collect mum's money from the building society but slowly I have taken over paying her bills, etc. and dealing with all her money needs as these got more difficult and confusing for her. Help can now be very gradual and must be appropriate.

I wonder if your friends father already has some loss of capacity littleflo, in which case he may not be able to give PoA. I know my mother was quite happy with the idea when we did it but I do not think she understands her own needs now and would believe (sometimes ) that she is perfectly capable of looking after herself.

Thank you. No she is not hassling him. She mentioned it and he said no, so she is leaving it completely alone. She felt it was inappropriate to ask him what his reasons were. I think she is a desperately difficult situation and was trying gain some understanding of his possible thought processes.

I expect you are right,,thatnothers reasons really won't help her.

Your friend's father may feel that he's handing over his independance. Has your friend explained that (unless he loses mental capacity), he can always take back control. We've had this situation recently after a relative was hospitalised. Once back home, she managed her affairs again.

It's not a case of 'signing' a power of attorney, but first of all the person has to want to give power of attorney to another to manage his finances and/or health and welfare.

If someone doesn't want to do that, then that is their business. Is your friend hassling Her father to do something he doesn't want to do?

Other people's reason will be particular to them, it will not help you or your friend.

Family relationships are deeply complex and even your friend might not know the full story, also you might only be privy to 'their' side of events.

No one can be forced to sign a POA. If their affairs do become too complex for them due to illness then the courts will appoint a guardian.

If your friend is genuinely worried about the situation they may be able to seek help from their father's GP....a referral to a mental health nurse or a social worker may be arranged if problems become insurmountable.