Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

When I was young I hated it and found it very embarrassing and upsetting if I was whistled at. Okay maybe I was shy and retiring but I still found myself changing my route to avoid it happening again. I think she was fully entitled to complain about something she found upsetting and intimidating.

Well, everyone's different aren't they and, given that, it's probably better that men don't assume that their shouts and wolf whistles are universally welcomed.

Personally, when I was younger I found it embarrassing and intimidating to be shouted and whistled at by a group of leering men.

If a man stood in front of me and didn't let me pass, I would find it intimidating and possibly threatening. I don't think a wolf whistle should be treated as sexual harrassment in normal circumstances but if it is accompanied by lewd comments and invasion of personal space, it is, in my opinion, unacceptable.

I think it's rather sad that women feel the need for their attractiveness to be validated in this way - particularly as I feel this sort of male behaviour is not really meant to be complimentary.

GillT57 you say 'tell that to the poor souls huddling in their tents in Katmandu'

I've always been baffled by those who think this is a valid argument.

How many of the normal concerns posted on GN would be invalidated by the tents argument?

Certainly annoyance at inconsiderate next door neighbours, irritation with husbands, worries about the effect on grandchildren of their parents breaking up. And so on.

All very serious concerns but nothing compared with huddling in a tent.

Of course, it would be possible to tell those huddling in tents they shouldn't complain because at least they and their families have not been blown apart by having a bomb dropped on them out of nowhere, neither have they been drowned at sea trying to get to a better life!

I can't do links but is the video on the Mirror website taken by her as evidence of this particular incident.?

Eloethan. Last paragraph. Validation has been covered by ginny in her 11.13am post. It is nice to have a cream cake every so often. nOt necessary, but nice. A compliment by a stranger.

I agree though that men who do it, cannot guarantee how well it is going to be received.

The man who did it to the girl did seem to have more than a compliment in mind.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/wolf-whistling-builders-quizzed-cops-over-5590787

All I can hear is a wolf whistle.
It appears that she is walking right through the site.

petallus I realise that it came across as a puerile argument, and of course I don't mean that nothing should be discussed because there is always something somewhere more serious. I think what I was trying to say, badly obviously, was that I find this all a bit trivial. I certainly do not condone sexual harassment of any kind, I have a teenage daughter, but there is a big leap from a few wolf whistles, (if that is what happened), to gross and vulgar gestures or any physical threats. I just feel that we are sometimes in danger of over politicising everything and making everything an offence. I find many things offensive, but wolf whistles from scaffolding is not one.

I'm not sure what that clip is supposed to show. As far as I can see / hear there was one whistle and one other that sounded more like an electrical or mechanical sound. I wonder why she panned in on the two workmen, I could see nothing other than them looking to see who was walking by.

My last word on this is that probably the whistler was ill advised bearing in mind todays thinking but not guilty of sexual harassment. However if one stood in her way, he was certainly in the wrong.

I've read that two men obstructed her and got up close to her face saying "Morning love" this on it's own would seem fairly innocent but put it with the whistling every day for a month and frequent sexual comments it becomes something else.
She had complained to their company and it still went on. Having considered changing her route she decided "Why should I?".

Whistling is one thing, this seems to have gone a step further. Was she right to inform the police.

soon and ginny

Do you get the impression the Mirror link is giving video evidence of the actual encounter, I couldn't make my mind up ?

I just took it that it was one of her typical days.

Over lunch I looked at the headline on the front page of the DM and said to DH 'That headline is grossly misleading, when you read what actually happened' He said that had been his re-action as well.

The full story is very different. To quote 'When she was wolf whistled at by builders on her walk to work she first tried to ignore it. But as the wolf whistles and accompanying sexist comments turned into a daily ritual she began to get upset. Finally after a MONTH (my caps) of unwanted attention she had had enough - and called the police.

One of the workers even approached her on the pavement, blocking her way before saying 'Morning love'. He was probably 18 or 19 and got right in my face, standing next to an older man. He didn't touch me but they were in my personal space on the pavement, even though I blanked him out

The story above is my definition of persistent sexual harassment and she was absolutely right to go to the police. I think the men concerned should be shamed by being named, even if there is a decision not to prosecute.

Sexual harassment in the workplace can - and dors - cut both ways. My husband speaks of having to run the gauntlet of women working in the production line in an engineering factory in the early 70's. As a young engineer he wouid be sent down from the design office to sort out a problem and would be pinched and groped as he made his way down the line. What was done to young apprentices by the women would nowadays constitute an attack, not harassment.

Crun.....didn't mean to belittle any issues you had/have, I took your post in a different way than you intended, I'm sorry for that. This is where print lets us down, sometimes we need to hear the tone of voice as well. I hope you reached a satisfactory conclusion with your complaint.

Good post Flick- how can anyone read that and then say what happened to the young woman was acceptable? I really can't believe some of the posts on here.

Times change don't they?I think that women today won't put up with the things that our generation used to.Our daughters probably put up with more than our grand-daughters will.I remember builders whistling, shouting and smiling at me from about the age of 12 which is ridiculously young, and I really hated it.I once met my daughter after school when she was 15, and two different lorry drivers hung out of their windows and tooted at her, and to my surprise she seemed to enjoy the attention!however that is different to having to walk past a building site.you would need to be very confident not to mind constant whistling and yelling.One good thing about being older I suppose, it doesn't happen any more.

I think most people on here were saying that a wolf whistle probably wouldn't constitute a sex crime, but I think most are agreed that jumping in front of someone, invading their personal space and being overtly familiar would constitute harrassment and would make any woman or girl feel uneasy.
How did the papers get hold of it though?

I think Eleothan has hit the nail on the head.

Wolf whistling is not really a friendly way of letting a woman know she is attractive. It is a male bonding exercise, blokes showing off to their mates.

How often does a single male wolf whistle a woman he does not know?
Hardly ever. They always hunt in packs (yes, a bit dramatic but the analogy appealed to me).

4 pages of wonderful pro the complainer responses on this same news item on MN.

She should have tried whistling back. A bit of humour often dispels what could be a threatening situation. Having read most of the above, though, I expect she was right to go to the cops. Let's hope there is no backlash.

I don't know if it was sexual harassment or not. Whistling happened all the time when I was young and I didn't feel threatened but then I didn't grow up in PC world where every comment and action has to be watched.

I'm not saying that PC is a bad thing and I'd hate to go back to the openly racist, homophobic days but ....and I'm ducking as I type this.....have we gone a little too far?

If she was intimidated when the man stepped in front of her then fair enough but a whistle is only a whistle and it's a sign of approval. It's not as if they were verbally abusing her. We can be sexual objects just as men can be sexual objects. If you think women don't leer at men just think about the Diet Coke advert.

Try going to Italy! - I took my 3 girls when they were teenage/early twenties and the Italian men were very vocal in their appreciation of this bevy of beauty (not me!). It is quite normal over there.

VQ....the exact point re the Coke advert has just been made on R4 along with a comment as to how silent the sisterhood were about it.

So why is it the 'sisterhood's ( whatever that is) job to complain about sexist adverts where men are the subjects? Where are the 'brotherhood' supporting the young woman in this case? FWIW, many of us who criticise sexism directed at women would also criticise it the other way round. But even having said that, the coke advert was not REAL - what happened to this woman was. And I don't understand the point about Italy - why on earth does it matter what is normal there? Have you seen what is normal in Saudi Arabia for example?