Is wolf-whistling a sex crime?

Yes, good post ThatBags.
I love my wife for many reason, one being that she has an active brain and everything that goes with it. However when I saw her for the very first time at the Royal Ballroom back in 1963, did I think "she looks Ike a girl who can hold a conversation" ?) NO, I thought "nice face, tits and bum" I could fancy her. DID I wolf whistle her, no, but I did inside my head.

quite thatbags
a very good post.

As with the sheep I mentioned earlier, it does all come down to sex appeal and I think some of us don't want to accept that, or want to think that human beings are not subject to the same biological drives as other life forms.
Don't take me wrong, I don't mean that sexual signalling and sexual-toned behaviour (such as wolf whistling) should not be curbed to some extent in order that society can run in a civilised fashion and in order that men and women can live together.
BUT, I interpret wolf whistles in the same way as I interpret women's efforts to make themselves look as attractive as possible. We kid ourselves it's for our own sakes. It's not. It's to enhance our sexual attractiveness because that's how life works. So, I'm not criticising people who want to make thmeselves look attractive. Most of us do. I do. It's normal. We may differ in our taste as to what attractiveness is, but we all do it. Similarly, there are some male behaviours that some of like and some don't. Wolf whistling is one of them, as has been made obvious by comments on this thread and on threads in newspapers. Did anyone see the Guardian's take on the Poppy Smart story yesterday — contrasting articles from a series of people which, if nothing else, showed that it's not something everyone will agree on however many times we dance around it.

There is an argument, oft repeated, that women should be able to walk around wearing whatever they like and not have to endure comments. I don't agree with that argument in exactly the same way as I don't agree with the argument, if there is one (but I've never heard it), that men should be able to walk around wearing whatever they like and not have their appearance commented upon.

Planting himself in her path was a step too far beyond what I'm going to call civilised sexual signalling, but wolf whistling is not. And that's the issue people disagree over, and probably always will. We are sexual animals and wolf whistling, like hair beautification and make-up and clothes fashion, is a harmless, if annoying to some people, sexual signal.

When I was 16 walking back to work a man told me that I was sitting on a fortune. Being very young and quite innocent it took me awhile to figure out what he meant. At that age I was quite frightened and confused but way back then there was no-one to talk to about it.

He actually said that after being shown the video by the police, he and his colleagues curbed their behaviour because:

'It's not worth getting into trouble over some silly little girl. I don't know why she complained, she must be thinking things above her station.'

'I'm sure if she walks past again and she is lucky she will get wolf-whistled again. I have wolf-whistled so many girls and got so many birds and snogged so many girls off the back of that, and never had a complaint before. But I've got a girlfriend so need to be careful what I say'.

Sounds a real charmer doesn't he.

The comments that follow the various articles about this story suggest that wolf whistling supporters also have a similar attitude towards women who don't behave in the appropriate way when they are "complimented":

"Get over it love ......."

"I'd take it as a compliment, you're not that attractive! She really needs to get over herself!"

"No boyfriend? I wonder why!!!!!!"

"Is Poppy Smart a lesbian? I think she must be. I have never met a straight woman who wasn't pleased when men found her attractive."

"The only thing a woman hates more than being whistled at.....is the day when the whistles stop because she's old."

Modern feminism is the green light for such women unfortunately - 'look at me I'm a victim it's all the fault of the patriarchy'!

"Did she have to take the same route to work every day?"

"Sexual provocation - as practised by many (most?) young British women is also not acceptable and should not be tolerated."

"A woman who wears provocative clothing is a menace to herself and to the human race."

So those who support the way these builders behaved might like to reflect on the level of dislike and disrespect for women that those who also support these men demonstrate.

VQ
Quite!

I'd be chuffed to be wolf whistled too.

A few months ago I overheard a man say to his friend that I had a lovely bum. I wasn't in the least upset. In fact I was quite flattered.

If I got a wolf whistle I would ask them if they needed to go to Specsavers.
(sorry to bring a note of frivolity to the thread, I have made some more thoughtful posts above )

I'm sorry! But:-
In my seventies, I'd be delighted and flattered if I got a wolf whistle!
I'm much more likely to get 'can I help you across the road? Dear?)

GrannyTwice, you are right, this thread is in danger of committing it's own sex crime by going round in so many circles that it will disappear up it's own @@@@@

I totally agree that the behaviour is something I would find totally unacceptable in any of my male friends or relatives and my 3 DSs know this. The young man interviewed is 28 the young woman is 23, he describes her as a "Silly girl" two words which illustrate his real opinion of women. How anyone could support or excuse his behaviour I don't understand.

Yes JesM and invariably when women are walking along with their own thoughts minding their own business, the same sort of men who do all the whistling and cat calling then throw in "cheer up luv it might never happen!" Incandescent doesn't describe how I remember feeling, I got that comment thrown at me quite a lot in my younger days. I was never flattered, just irritated. My sympathies are with Poppy. One of the advantages of aging, the days of unwanted attention are long over

Wolf whistling etc seems normally to be something men in groups do, partly to show off to each other, without giving any thought to its effect.
Same with discussing page 3 girls and similar behaviour.

Whistling etc is an intrusion of privacy - the right for a woman to walk down the street, thinking her own thoughts and not being treated as an object of lust, plus have the attention of others directed to her.
Many men just don't get the fact that yes, they like looking at attractive women, but in publicising their attraction to all and sundry in this way they transform the woman (and all women) into an object that exists for the entertainment of men.

This thread is now going round in circles.

How has wolf whistling turned into a pursuit?

Do you mean a contradiction between her saying she is an introvert and blogging, or between her saying she didn't want the publicity and being an introvert?

Poppy also says in her blog that she did not want this publicity'if anything i am an introvert'.

That's a contradiction to me.

Just reread the BBC article which does not say anything re a timeline for Poppy contacting the owner of the building-who apologised, the building contractor-who sort of apologised,and the police- all of which led to an escalation of the harassment. Can we get an url for the article referred to by Ana, vq, Thatbags who say she did this all in the same day? Also the man in the machine was part of the blocking on the sidewalk and the harassment according to Poppy.The info that the main aggressor is a married man and a father sheds a disturbing light on the whole month long pursuit .The fact that he was put in jail for affray is more disturbing as many such cases do not end in jail terms. Poppy was definitely right to report to the police, even if they did not lay charges this time. I hope this man does not escalate his pursuit of her further. Poppy also says in her blog that she did not want this publicity'if anything i am an introvert'.

And a wolf whistle could come over as a 'sex crime' when it is just meant to be an expression of admiration (not in this case I hasten to add, it went further than a single one-off wolf whistle from a yob).

gillybob

Oh dear, a post (mine I mean) can come over as snappy when they are not meant to be!

I know you didn't rosequartz I was answering the OP in my second line.

If you think about how long it has taken for stalking to register as not merely undesirable but now be classed as a crime, there is a similarity. A "persistent admirer" was how a stalker used to be viewed, tolerated, and frequently dismissed regardless of the misery he or she caused. Lives were wrecked by the fear and stress even terror, generated by stalking but unless there was physical threat, little action was taken. We have woken up to this as a real threat, surely the time has come for wolf whistling, catcalling, sexist jeers and verbal as well as physical sexual harassment to be recognised.

I did say wolf whistles are not a 'sex crime' imo, gillybob, although harrassment is a crime.

A headmaster I knew (actually he was mine in primary school) was vile. I remember he smacked a boy in our class on the bottom infront of the entire school causing the boy to wet his pants. The said headmaster seemed to take a strange delight in this. I didn't understand what was going on at the time but I can see it for what it was now. I was terrified of him.

He didn't touch her, jumped in front of her I think and 'invaded her personal space and prevented her going on her way'. Quite intimidating and bullying.
I remember a beggar doing that to me years ago in a city centre, as I tried to walk past and around him he danced backwards in front of me, leering into my face and demanding money. DD was with me, she was only about 9 or 10. I gave him £1 to get rid of him and DD heard another little girl say to her mother 'see, that lady got caught just like you'.
Nothing sexual, but harrassment.