How much are you worth ?

I'll leave Ana to answer GT's post. I dont anything about the christian church back further that the mif 1800's. And even then, little.

Nelliemoser. Yes, methodism is very democratic indeed. Majority vote on lots of things at grass root level. It makes it all a bit long winded and cumbersome at times, but never mind.

Ana - my version gave God a bit more credit. If we are talking about religion and the worth it bestows upon individuals, there is no way it can be a politics free zone. My parents were non- conformists, not sure which kind, but the whole issue of the development of the non- conformists and politics is absolutely fascinating. In general they were not Conservatives and were very much in opposition to the stranglehold that the Cof E held over so many institutions in the 19th century- I think I remember at one stage you couldn't join the civil service without being a member of the CofE. But my overall point was that there was a conspiracy of both capitalism and the Anglican church to persuade the poor to accept their role in life as God given and therefore not to question and revolt. The non conformists brought a more questioning view to that idea of a pre ordained status and a belief that whilst the next life was going to be all very well, Man (sic) had a role to play in making this life a bit more tolerable - in fact, more than a role, a duty.Bit cheeky really questioning divine ordination. The CofE was eventually much improved by the influence of non conformity

Do you think that there are lots of wealthy christians? Not as far as I know.
[I used the word christians]. Again, I am not sure if you think that good or bad.

We dont mix church with politics at our church, and a good job too. I would leave if it did that.
God doesnt care whether you are rich, poor, what job you have, what education you have or have not. In fact, it says somewhere, that not many who are rich will enter the kingdom of heaven.
I cant tell from your post, whether you will think that good or bad.

Grannytwice My dad was a socialist, a very devout Methodist.

I do think the non hirearchical ways of the Methodist church I attended are deeply entrenched in my psyche even though I am not a believer.

So was mine. And/or feetlebum.

post in answer to GrannyTwice.

The words are actually 'and ordered their estate', to be pedantic.

And of course we are all of the same intrinsic worth regardless of our wealth. What's wrong with saying that? Or do politics have to come into everything?

Heck. You are making me think tonight.
Last post, no idea whatsoever. I have never thought about it. Politics is hardly ever discussed at our church. I probably know that a couple are tories and a couple are liberals. That is as much as I know.

It is a long time since we have sung "All things bright and beautiful". I would have to go and look it up, and I have nicer things to do tonight!

And no idea about capitalist theory either.
Are you, as FlicketyB says, confusing wealth with worth?
She, I think I am right in saying is essentially talking about self esteem, nothing to do with monetary wealth.
tbh, I am not thinking overly clearly right now, I may have a better answer in the morning.

Grannytwice I cannot get over that awful verse either although it has been expunged from most modern hymn books.

It sums up everything bad about the attitude of the church and state in the mid Victorian times. "Doff your hat to the Squire stuff".

I have quoted that one more than once on here.

Question (serious) are left wing people more likely to be aetheists? I only know ( as in friends) one very right wing person and he is religious. With my other friends, all left of centre, about 90% are atheist - but not a very scientific sample I admit

Yes exactly - but not sentimentality, capitalist conspiracy to keep the unwashed in their place. Same as caste system!

You don't have to be any kind of 'lefty' to have rumbled that one, Granny Twice!

And let's face it, "All Things Bright and Beautiful" is pure Victorian sentimentality, from a time when you were expected to ;know your place' - and accept it, because everything would be so much better when you were dead! Ha!

Well soon - as an atheist I think that type of belief was very helpful in getting people to accept their lot in this life as everything would be ok in the next one. Part of the conspiracy of the capitalist theory of social control so beloved of us lefties. It's like that awful verse in 'all things bright and beautiful' which goes something like ' the rich man in his castle, the poor man at his gate, God made thrm high and lowly and honours each estate'

Having had a religious education I was taught that we are all equal in the sight of God, a teaching I accepted than and accept still. This means that we are all of the same intrinsic worth regardless of our wealth

Yes yes yes!

We do seem to confuse 'wealth' with 'worth' these days.

Having had a religious education I was taught that we are all equal in the sight of God, a teaching I accepted than and accept still. This means that we are all of the same intrinsic worth regardless of our wealth.

To continue the religious analogies. I was very impressed by the parable of the king who gave his servants a sum of money to look after and rewarded those who invested wisely and punished the one who hoarded. This was always interpreted to me as being that we are all endowed with different abilities and skills and the question is about whether you use these abilities to the both best advantage of others. I have more respect for a person of limited talents who uses them to their full than a highly talented person who skates through life doing well for minimum effort.

Bill and Melinda Gates, admittedly, considerably wealthier than Paul McCartney, who have already in life channelled most of their wealth into a charitable foundation that is funding research into a cure/vaccination for malaria, HIV/Aids and other intractable diseases are in my estimation more worthy of respect for what they do than is Paul McCartney.

Paul Jones still going strong. The Blues Band has just been to Durham Gala, but I missed it. Tickets had sold out before I realised it.

I think that Roy Orbison has stood the test of time with his music, it still sounds great, because he had a really good voice.
I still like some Beatles songs, but not all, and ditto that with the Stones.
I used to be 'very taken' as they used to say by Eric Burden of The Animals
( The House Of The Rising Sun.)Also Paul Jones.

Roy Orbison is my favourite singer of all time. No one else comes close. I saw him once on the same bill as the early Beatles. Totally stunning.

It's happened again!

Thanks for reminding me of Georgie Fame, Bonnie and Clyde - I've just played it from youtube

I remember, at the age of 14, playing Georgie Fame's Bonnie and Clyde over and over until our next door neighbour said he'd come round and pull the needle out of the Dansette if I didn't turn it off. Mum took the 7" away. I played Daydream Believer instead! Davy Jones. (Sigh)!

There's a frequently repeated documentary on BBC4 about Jeff Lynne -another talented musician. It features his collaboration with Roy Orbison in The Travelling Wilburys. Great music.

I loved ELO.

I think it's just as well Pompa left this thread in disgust disappointment - it really has gone way off theme now

But I am a lady.