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Four Fours

(121 Posts)
crun Thu 12-Mar-15 12:29:07

I thought I'd try you with a puzzle that our maths teacher Mr Garlick set us forty odd years ago, and see if it captures your interest or falls flat.

The idea is to write a formula for every integer between one and a hundred in terms of four fours. You can use as many mathematical symbols as you like, but the only numeral allowed is four, and you must use four of them, no more, no less. (As there's no correct character on the keyboard, use .4' for point four recurring.)

I'll start off with a few so you see the idea:

1= 44/44
2= 4/4+4/4
3= 4/4+4/sqrt(4)
4= 4/sqrt(4)+4/sqrt(4)

Let's do them in order, so that people don't cherry-pick all the easy ones first:

5= ???

soontobe Sat 14-Mar-15 20:05:37

pardon? That makes 39 by my wrong reckoning.

24 + 6/.4

soontobe Sat 14-Mar-15 20:06:10

I think it may be time for me to quit!

crun Sat 14-Mar-15 22:27:16

4! = 24
sqrt4 = 2
4/.4' = 9

35 = 24+2+9

or this is much simpler and more tidy:

35 = 4!+44/4

JoyBloggs Sun 15-Mar-15 13:39:49

Not 100% confident about this but, hey ho will give it a try and no doubt someone will let me know if it's rubbish... smile

37 = 4!+4+4/.4'

soontobe Sun 15-Mar-15 13:44:07

No idea. Because I have lost track of what a 4' is.

Alygran Sun 15-Mar-15 14:29:14

That's right jb

stb .4' is point 4 recurring. When you divide it into 4 you get 9. Very useful for the tricky odd numbers.

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 14:34:32

4/9 = .4444444444444................. (point four recurring)

The correct way of denoting this is to write .4 with a dot over the 4, but since the computer keyboard won't do that, I suggested at the top of the thread using .4' instead.

(Four to the power four is written as a 4 with a superscript 4, but as the board doesn't support that either, the usual computer way of typing it is: 4^4)

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 14:37:10

Two of us typing at the same time. smile

pompa Sun 15-Mar-15 14:50:29

Not sure that using 44/.4' is valid as the answer will never be integer 9 but something greater than 9

37 = 4! + (4! + sqrt4) / sqrt4

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 15:18:52

44/.4' = 99

An integer, but not very useful until we get nearer 100

Alygran Sun 15-Mar-15 16:09:13

That's only 3 fours. .44' perhaps?

pompa Sun 15-Mar-15 16:16:13

As far as I am aware .4' means a repeating decimal eg .44444444444444444 etc, so the answer would never be an integer, a very close approximation perhaps but never exact.

so 4/.4' would be 9.00000000000000.....9

Or does .4' mean something different ?

pompa Sun 15-Mar-15 16:33:56

I believe that int(4/.4') should be used if 9 is required.

The term "int" has several uses, one is that it is the integer part of a number. eg int(9.999999) = 9

But I'm sure there are simpler solutions.

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 16:39:42

Alygran I know it's only three fours, it was a response to pompa's post above. Not a complete answer in itself, but a building block to make them from.

Pompa it is exact: 44/99 = .4'

therefore: 44/.4' =99

A recurring decimal is one that repeats all the way to infinity, so there's an infinitely small error, ie. an error of zero, ie. exact.

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 16:44:29

Pompa you're confusing algebra with computing. Computers can't represent recurring decimals because they don't have an infinite number of digits, hence your use of the INT( ) statement.

You can't write an infinite number of digits on paper either, of course, but that's why we have the notation for recurring decimals.

pompa Sun 15-Mar-15 16:56:21

Sorry crun, I do not agree, but I can't be bothered to argue the point. I'll pass on this game, it's getting boring.

crun Sun 15-Mar-15 17:10:15

I'm not sure I can see what it is you disagree with.

JoyBloggs Sun 15-Mar-15 18:57:48

soontobe Yes, I agree! I'm seeing '4's in my sleep grin

crun and Alygran Thanks for demos and info... I shall attempt 38.

38 = 4!+(4×4)-sqrt4

Alygran Sun 15-Mar-15 19:30:04

39=44-(sqrt4/.4)
I think we are into slightly easier territory now (for a little while) so I hope no one else gives up. Have set this as the Easter egg challenge for the family!

JoyBloggs Sun 15-Mar-15 21:10:51

40 = 44 - (sqrt4+sqrt4)