So as not to disappoint - further adventures of the Idiot!!

Another bit of advice would be to run your bank account as if you are a business so that everything you pay to an ex-partner shows up for what it is. Easy to say after the event of course. The least said about the CSA the better.

My daughter worked out that when the children are no longer supported through her in the next couple of years she will loose, in government support and child support from my DD's DP, about £10,000 a year - and don't forget they live with my DD and her DP for half the time! I think it is a very cruel system that does not encourage someone work full time long before this.

This lady has certainly tried to paint a distorted picture of DD's DP but they began questioning it - and therefore her motives - round about the age of 12.

Penstommen, my brother in law had exactly the experience you describe. He paid significant amounts, but informally. When he and my sister married, 10 years after his wife left, she immediately applied to the CSA, claiming from their joint income. They were hit by huge bills, which as with your son, were later dismissed totally. The stress involved wasn't so easily dismissed, nor the tensions caused between the parents involved. It did nothing to help the child in the middle of this unnecessary scrap either, she didn't gain financially and was reminded again of the conflict between her parents.

I know we all try and avoid legal agreements and keep the peace, but it isn't always the best thing unfortunately.

I echo Grace. My DD2s partner has 2 children (now adults) from a previous relationship. When the couple first split he transferred the house to her name and paid of a huge chunk of the mortgage to reduce the monthly costs. He continued to pay her Barclaycard bills as his way of funding his children. However this was all done informally & by mutual agreement. In addition he paid to have windows replaced and took them on holidays. He also kitted them out each September for school and bought the lap tops, phones etc etc as any parent might do.
My SiLs ex had a subsequent relationship and when that broke up, after some years, she began to claim benefit. This alerted CSA who claimed SiL owed £85k! It took my DH four years 'debate' with CSA to agree that in fact SiL had been contributing to his children's care. In the end they said he did not owe any money! It took many bank statements, tax returns & hours of phone calls to sort it out! My advice to any family trying to split amicably is to put it all on a legal footing!

And me!!

I take your point Gracesgran but, in the cases mentioned here, it's the husbands and/or male partners that are behaving badly.

I should point out that I have two of the loveliest sons-in-law and a son who is a good partner too, so I know they are not all bad. It's just that these ones are!!

anyone who takes their bad feelings towards an ex-partner out on the children will surely get their just deserts

Oh Gracesgran I certainly hope so !

This is all a bit anti Dads. I have seen the other side as my daughter's partner's ex-wife thought she would get the house, the children and an income from my daughter's partner and the state. After years of supporting them, when he was unemployed recently she (who else would it be) reported him to the CSA as living above his declared income. As a family they were as they were living on my daughter's income and she certainly wasn't going to support the ex-wife!

He has had the children for half the time ever since she basically "sold" him the right and has kept a home going for them - not taking better jobs so he stayed in the area. I say half the time but of course it is just under half to ensure she gets all the benefits available. The youngsters are well into their late teens but she still only works for 16 hours a week.

My daughter has certainly contributed to the well being of the family. As well as now both working full time they are running a business which, as it is growing slowly, certainly does not provide them with any income.

Women used to be unable to keep children after a divorce as they hadn't got the means to provide for them and now it has swung the other way. Anyone who takes their bad feelings towards an ex-partner on the children will surely get their just deserts as the children get older - they are rarely fooled.

My son is paying £750 a month for a one bedroom flat in Berkshire so I imagine double for a house would be reasonable. Or extortionate depending on your point of view.

I wonder if the Idiot realises how much innocent amusement he is providing. It's very nice for kitty's DD to have expensive presents, but what on earth does the new girlfriend think of him spending all that money on his ex? Or did he just tell her he sent the children a box of chocolates?

Galen I found your last post reassuring and hope those regulations and powers also apply under Scottish law.
We know he has some valuable assets apart from property but I do believe they'd be easy to hide as they are highly portable.
If he simply denies owning these assets ( like gold and jewellery) I don't know if they could be traced.

I think you'll find there is a right of appeal to a tribunal. They can demand his books, bank accounts, income tax etc. it's a judge and an accountant who make the decision. They ask questions about lifestyle etc and decide if that is compatable with his declared income!

BTW people he and his brother (currently sharing a flat) are moving to Holland in the next couple of months to live with mummy and daddy (she is Dutch)
I feel sad for DGC especially the oldest one but DD can't wait not to have to see him every week.

DD is having to downsize as even with what spermie pays, her part time job and me helping she is struggling to pay for her 3 bed semi. She's ok with that though as it was him who insisted they need a large garden and a garage. She just wants something she can afford !

ann you should talk to your DD now, about your worries re the financial situation, so that she can see it is causing you distress.

Maybe that will persuade her to get things properly sorted.

So do I ana or I can see our savings will take a knock and we really must support them but at a cost.

Yes, I live 'up north' too which is why that sort of rent made my mind boggle - but of course in Surrey I suppose it's reasonable.

I do hope it's still possible for him to pay the agreed monthly sum to your daughter.

Ana this is Surrey so probably not. He wants room for both children 15and12 to be able to stay. Living as I do in Stockport it is a fortune!

The Idiot is paying huge amounts for a 4 bed house when DD will be in a two bed house because all he can afford to pay is what's left after his rent! I can't get her to get 'legal' about it either.

ann, if he plays silly b*****s she can go to the CMS website and see what they think is reasonable!

That's a huge sum to be paying for one person, ann! Is that the norm for the area where he is renting?

My Dd and SiL separated in September,at the moment everything is friendly and he has just spent 4days with them over Christmas. The finances have been settled between them and a monthly standing order is in place but next week SiL is moving into a rented house of which the rent is £1450 per month and that is when I can see problems will arise,but I cannot make DD see this and get it all put on a legal basis. She just keeps saying he will not renage on the agreement as his children are his prime concern. Is she just being naive?

Spermie does now pay maintenance but as he has been given £X figure he thinks he should only ever have to provide for them at his one night a week. "Because what I give you covers the 6 nights and days at yours''

The comments about men avoiding providing financial support by playing fast n lose with self employment make me cross. mcem, that's a shocking thing for your gc's father to say to them.

Shysal my dd is in much the same position re maintenance as our idiot is also self-employed. Has lots of regular work and owns several properties but manages to hide his income. Boasts that he got away with it years ago with his first family and will do it again. Went so far as to tell GCs that he'd no money at all as he'd given it all to mummy for them and showed them his empty wallet!!!

Idiot and Spermie do have one very small redeeming feature - they have given some of us a giggle now and then. I can only hope that the families who have the misfortune to have to deal with them can also see the funny side now and again which to be honest must be difficult.

I think your DD ex wins the prize on this one shysal Using his children as pawns really is the lowest of the low.

There are a lot of them about Kitty, glad you and DD can laugh!

The idiot in my family knows how to give his 3 kids a good time. He took them to the cemetry on Christmas morning to visit the graves of long-dead relatives whom they had never met! Despite never having paid a penny of child support for the 2 years since he left DD with huge debts unknown to her, and a house about to be re-possessed, he then presented them each with an iphone with no top-up, and instructions to go to the Vodafone shop after the holidays to get their old non-compatible SIM cards transferred. I hope they didn't fall off the back of a lorry! How disappointing for the DGCs to receive the gifts they wanted, then be unable to use them. Being self-employed he is managing to hide any income from the CSA, who have estimated that he shoud pay £5 per week!!!

What a pair of idiots - so sorry that your dear children have got tied up in all this.