Gransnet forums

Chat

Pope is anti granny

(81 Posts)
Galen Tue 25-Nov-14 18:39:42

I'm very upset to hear the pope describe Europe as being like a grandmother. Haggard, infertile and lacking in vitality!

How dare he!

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 22:01:48

Just show how unobservant I am, read the speeches, did not look at the seats.
Also, shows how little I know of European politics, didn't know the difference between the European Parliament and the Council of Europe (not sure I really care, probably both a waste on money)

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 21:57:09

JBF, you are right, there are far more important aspects of his speech, but it has made some good banter for us here.
Time to concentrate on the real message. I wonder what language it was delivered in, the video I watched was dubbed in English, misinterpreted in translation ?

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 25-Nov-14 21:56:41

He did make two speeches.

this one to the european parliament

and this one to the council of europe

Different coloured seats. [shrug]

Ana Tue 25-Nov-14 21:47:51

Yes, paraphrased to create the worst possible impression...(nothing new there then!)

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 21:45:28

Snap again smile

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 21:45:00

It's in there :-

"In many quarters we encounter a general impression of weariness and aging, of a Europe which is now a “grandmother”, no longer fertile and vibrant"

About paragraph 15

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 25-Nov-14 21:44:16

15th paragraph down (on the Vatican version) "In many quarters we encounter a general impression of weariness and aging, of a Europe which is now a “grandmother”, no longer fertile and vibrant."

Why do the press have to focus on such little things? hmm

MiceElf Tue 25-Nov-14 21:29:21

Weary and haggard. But nothing about grandmothers.

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 25-Nov-14 21:21:39

"Communities and individuals today find themselves subjected to barbaric acts of violence: they are evicted from their homes and native lands, sold as slaves, killed, beheaded, crucified or burned alive, under the shameful and complicit silence of so many."

That is very hard to read. What can we do?

petallus Tue 25-Nov-14 21:10:28

Weary and ageing, no longer fertile and vibrant?

Yep, that's me to a T!

Surely we don't have to strive to retain the attributes of youth to the bitter end. Far too wearing.

I'm happy in my cronehood.

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 25-Nov-14 21:09:59

this version has the grandmother bit in it

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 21:08:23

Just a minute, I'll check (again)-------- Yes 2+1, I am a man. grin

rosesarered Tue 25-Nov-14 21:05:58

I can't get outraged by anything the Pope says.It wasn't a bad speech. He seems to shake things up a bit at the Vatican.

rosesarered Tue 25-Nov-14 21:04:25

Is Pompa not a woman then?confused I always assumed so. Sorry about that.

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 20:50:13

Either there were two speeches or two very different versions published.

It would appear that the speech delivered included the Grandmother reference. There seems little comparison between the two speeches reported.

Galen Tue 25-Nov-14 20:31:34

I do think the general tenor of the speech was accurate and true!

Galen Tue 25-Nov-14 20:29:42

Throughout its history, Europe has always reached for the heights, aiming at new and ambitious goals, driven by an insatiable thirst for knowledge, development, progress, peace and unity. But the advance of thought, culture, and scientific discovery is entirely due to the solidity of the trunk and the depth of the roots which nourish it. Once those roots are lost, the trunk slowly withers from within and the branches – once flourishing and erect – bow to the earth and fall. This is perhaps among the most baffling paradoxes for a narrowly scientific mentality: in order to progress towards the future we need the past, we need profound roots. We also need the courage not to flee from the present and its challenges. We need memory, courage, a sound and humane utopian vision.

Rebora notes, on the one hand, that “the trunk sinks its roots where it is most true”. The roots are nourished by truth, which is the sustenance, the vital lymph, of any society which would be truly free, human and fraternal. On the other hand, truth appeals to conscience, which cannot be reduced to a form of conditioning. Conscience is capable of recognizing its own dignity and being open to the absolute; it thus gives rise to fundamental decisions guided by the pursuit of the good, for others and for one’s self; it is itself the locus of responsible freedom.

It also needs to be kept in mind that apart from the pursuit of truth, each individual becomes the criterion for measuring himself and his own actions. The way is thus opened to a subjectivistic assertion of rights, so that the concept of human rights, which has an intrinsically universal import, is replaced by an individualistic conception of rights. This leads to an effective lack of concern for others and favours that globalization of indifference born of selfishness, the result of a conception of man incapable of embracing the truth and living an authentic social dimension.

This kind of individualism leads to human impoverishment and cultural aridity, since it effectively cuts off the nourishing roots on which the tree grows. Indifferent individualism leads to the cult of opulence reflected in the throwaway culture all around us. We have a surfeit of unnecessary things, but we no longer have the capacity to build authentic human relationships marked by truth and mutual respect. And so today we are presented with the image of a Europe which is hurt, not only by its many past ordeals, but also by present-day crises which it no longer seems capable of facing with its former vitality and energy; a Europe which is a bit tired and pessimistic, which feels besieged by events and winds of change coming from other continents.

To Europe we can put the question: “Where is your vigour? Where is that idealism which inspired and ennobled your history? Where is your spirit of curiosity and enterprise? Where is your thirst for truth, a thirst which hitherto you have passionately shared with the world?

The future of the continent will depend on the answer to these questions. Returning to Rebora’s image of the tree, a trunk without roots can continue to have the appearance of life, even as it grows hollow within and eventually dies. Europe should reflect on whether its immense human, artistic, technical, social, political, economic and religious patrimony is simply an artefact of the past, or whether it is still capable of inspiring culture and displaying its treasures to mankind as a whole. In providing an answer to this question, the Council of Europe with its institutions has a role of primary importance.
I suspect he may have deviated from his published speech.
Why otherwise the reference to grandmothers?

rosequartz Tue 25-Nov-14 20:28:01

X post pompa

For those who could not find the reference to a grandmother.
From an elderly man who works for a mysogynistic organisation.

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 20:25:31

Snap

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 20:24:39

Here is the speech from the "Catholic Herald" today.

www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2014/11/25/pope-franciss-address-to-the-european-parliament-in-full/

Extract :-

"In many quarters we encounter a general impression of weariness and aging, of a Europe which is now a “grandmother”, no longer fertile and vibrant."

rosequartz Tue 25-Nov-14 20:23:53

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ec0503e0-749d-11e4-b30b-00144feabdc0.html#axzz3K7764o5f

Another link, part of which is below:

Yet he was particularly vivid in depicting its sense of decline. “We encounter a general impression of weariness and ageing, of a Europe that is now a grandmother, no longer fertile and vibrant,” the Pope said.

rosequartz Tue 25-Nov-14 20:17:34

COBOL! pompa I have to confess that I didn't complete the course. I blame the lecturer, he was so super-intelligent that he wasn't able to put it across to lesser mortals and I hated it. Of course, now I am a Granny I could go on one of these simple coding courses that even Grandmas will understand wink if I could be bothered.

pompa Tue 25-Nov-14 20:12:13

Rosequartz, COBOL, that brings back unhappy memories, I was a manufacturing systems developer and had to program in COBOL on some of our legacy software, hated programming, prefered the design stage and let someone else do the graft.

MiceElf Tue 25-Nov-14 20:09:27

Thank you Riverwalk I've read the entire speech. I think it's an excellent one. And nowhere can I find a reference to grannies.

Riverwalk Tue 25-Nov-14 20:04:46

I can't see any reference to Grandmas!