Effective strategies, please

Sounds cool, Bags
for you too

Don't worry, folks, I didn't and don't feel criticised. I was and am glad to get other people's thoughts on the subject of teenage slobbishness and how to deal with it. I have taken on board some of the suggestions that were made, e.g. I set the table last night, including leaving a crumb brush and pan next to Minibags's plate. She took the hint. I will continue this for a while until I think she doesn't need the reminder of the cleaning up after herself tools. It's not as if this is anything new to her. At the PGL weekends she went to as a Cub and a Scout the kids had to clear their tables after each meal, including any water glasses that hadn't been used, and then they had to wipe the tables. I think this kind of thing is a reasonable expectation to have of a fourteen year old. I think Minibags thinks it is too. If she doesn't, that's just tough, but I honestly think she does.

Bags I didn't mean to sound critical either, and I certainly wasn't assuming that you will have to sweat big stuff when Minibags is older.

But equally, I don't think any of us can assume that our daughters aren't going to have problems in various ways as they face what life throws at them. If we have a good, tolerant relationship we're going to be in a better position to help them with those hurdles. I just think that sweating the small stuff isn't tolerant.

I've got two daughters in their 30s too, who I regard with great love, gratitude and pride. But I see other people's daughters sometimes, who are deeply unhappy in the life choices they've made, and think there but for the Grace of God.

You sound like my DH Tegan. He always has to neatly stack the tray up for the waitress. Bless.

I'm sure someone else has said this [probably me with my memory ]but imo teenagers that work hard at school and are generally nice and polite to people have to let rip in some ways, even if it's just leaving crumbs lying around. Strangely enough [on the subject of crumbs] although I live in absolute squalor when I have something to eat out I always have to put everything neatly back on the tray or, if I'm in a group of people have to stack the plates nicely [probably a result of years of waitressing]. When I worked at a surgery I was always amazed by mothers/fathers that let their children get the books and toys out of the box but never got them to put them back afterwards. I always felt that the ones that did that probably had immaculate homes. My kids always tidied up after themselve when out and about but at home it was the usual chaos.

Fish! What fish?!

I really do think you could get her a plate with her name on it. (they're never too old for that stuff ). And leave it out for her the night before.

Go on! Give it a try.

I'm grateful for all the replies on here. They have helped me to think things through, to see the funny side, and just to talk. One small response I would make is that assumptions about what else I might have to worry about with regard to Minibags are out of order. You do not know. I also have two daughters in their thirties so I've been in similar places before and come out unscathed, as have my daughters.

So long and thanks for all the fish

I guess that is exactly what I was trying to say GillT57 - it is possible to conflate small things into issues of principle (respect etc.) when really they are tiny in the scheme of things. Extrapolating such a small thing into an issue of respect is what is known as catastrophising in my book.

Sorry bags if I sound critical - I am coming from a very different place from you on this issue, but it might be a different view to at least consider. If she does not respond to the tongue-in-cheek dirty bowl in the bed (which should be done with a bit of humour), then I should just cut her a bit of slack - you do not want to provide her with a battle ground unnecessarily - there will be plenty more serious ones to come.

I had 3 teenage girls in my house at one point - and survived! I let an awful lot flow by me, but made sure that there were lots of hugs and that these were the important things. They came round to these details in their own time.

At the risk of being controversial, just let it go, it is only a few crumbs. be thankful that is the only thing you have to worry about with a teenage girl who is otherwise polite and kind and gets up and gets her own breakfast. Although these little things are very annoying ( I have two teenagers so I do know what I am talking about) they are irrelevant compared to the big things which may come along. Compare when they are toddlers: eating their yoghurt before their sandwich doesnt matter, refusing to stay in the car seat does. Don't sweat the little stuff. It was once explained on a Radio 4 programme why secondary schools have this insistence on ties being tied and worn a certain way, a way that all teenagers will try to change/avoid/amend to show their rebellion. The teacher said that while they were concentrating their rebellion on little insignificant and unimportant things like how the school tie was knotted, they were not getting into other potentially more serious issue and behaviour problems. Yes it is very irritating, yes I have bellowed at mine for the same petty things, but in reality it doesn't matter, just let it go and you may find that your daughter quietly complies.

It works both ways bags, so if your chat doesn't have any effect, I would stop treating her with 'consideration and respect' and let her get on with looking after herself.
No cooking her meals, washing her clothes etc.
I'm sure she will catch on quickly!

It is the stuff of considerateness and respect for other people thatbags I do agree with that sentiment, but unfortunately I think it does go below the radar much of the time for a few years at home.

Probably Minibags is the most delightful and polite girl to anyone and everyone outside the home.
I used to find that parents who said that their children were well-behaved and nigh on perfect at home in fact had children who could be rude and quite arrogant to other children and parents.
Those who said their children were 'impossible' and argumentative at home were astonished to hear that their teenagers were polite, chatty and charming to their friends' parents.

She is asserting herself over a few crumbs.

I agree.

I don't think bringing another parent into it is the answer, either. This is between bags and Minibags.

I don't regard polite helpfulness and civilised behaviour as small stuff. How a girl responds to reasonable requests from her mother is not small stuff. It is the stuff of considerateness and respect for other people.

What Galen says is so true!

Thatbags DH would say that she has gone into the tunnel and she won't be out until she's at least 20 - anything you say falls on deaf ears!

We used to say that we couldn't wait until they had their own places - we were then going to go and stay and leave all the lights on, drop wet towels in the bathroom and never wash up!

I cannot help feeling that unless you start them on being tidy as soon as they can walk and carry a plate it's too late.

That's my counsel of despair. I never did get it right.

I agree with the "small stuff" advice jane. A friend used to nag her son and go mad about things all the time - I used to say "What ammunition will you have left when he starts taking drugs or mugging old ladies - you have used it all up over tidying his room."

Whilst young people do need to think about pulling their weight and respect for their family, I also think that we need to think hard about what might be their preoccupations/worries in life. A 14 year old girl will have lots going on physically and emotionally and for her clearing and washing a cereal bowl probably feels like small beer compared with her need to understand all that is going on in her life.

What you need is a :-

Time machine!

Set it for 20years in the future, record what she's like then, then return to presen and compare and contrast.

My mother was given a crumb pan and brush as a wedding present 74 years ago. It was never used and we used to laugh at it. Time to ditch it, op. Whoever loads the dishwasher wipes the table.

It does get wearing bags. After finding myself shouting, because I was working full-time and desperately tired, that was my solution. I did what I did because I read somewhere that girls were refusing to cook and housework was not being done at all in many houses, and my DS, I was determined that he was not going to leave it all to his girlfriend/wife as my DH's had done. So I got going on training him up as soon as he started wanting to stay up later. I thought, if he's got the energy for that, he can use some of it to help out.

The way I look at it, if you are all sitting down to eat and watch tv and relax at the same time in the evening, then it's working. If there's one left out in the kitchen still clearing up, every night, then it's not. Unless that person has been sitting down all day doing nothing.

If it boils down to a power struggle, it might be better to let her win this one.
'Don't sweat the small stuff'. It's only a few crumbs.
There'll be plenty of big stuff to deal with in the coming years.

Personally I would concentrate on the 'can't be arsed to use a plate' aspect, as I think you put it, Bags.
That would worry me more than the crumbs.
If Minibags used a plate, the crumb problem might solve itself.

Would she take notice of her Daddy?

That is essentially my approach as well, roseq, which is why it's annoying when even the little she is asked to do (without being reminded daily!) doesn't get done.

ffinn, I like that <girds loins ready for robustness> <<somewhat wearily

I always got mine to tidy and clean their rooms (after a certain age and after a certain fashion), help clear up after meals and clear up after themselves, occasionally to cook, help look after the pets, but I did feel, quite strongly in fact, that taking on a huge amount of household chores was not their responsibility. They would be burdened with all the household chores and responsibilities of their own soon enough.

I never had any problems getting the kids to do little jobs around the house, but how do you train a husband who`s determined not to do anything, because "real men" don`t do housework? May I add that I`ve been trying for over 51 years, and he thinks that I`m very trying!