"Celebrating&qu ot; the start of the First World War

I'm enjoying the links made about Flanders Poppies. The British Legion are selling poppy seeds to commemorate, and to raise money for wounded soldiers.

I ignore tasteless adverts, and continue to feel it's right to commemorate something that caused so much heart ache. We will remember them

I do not object to the church and civic ceremonies that remember the start of WW1. It is the way that everyone has got to muscle in on it.

Have a gardening programme and they will be waffling on about Flanders Poppies, a farming problem will have a programme on the current state of the beef industry and a discussion about how farmers managed in 1914. Shops of all kinds have displays with a clear WW1 vintage theme, not commemoration and remembrance, but 'lets use the latest in thing' to sell Tvs. or curtain fabric and the like.

Most tasteless of all, an advert from a large double glazing company on Classic FM that was done in a cod 1914 officer voice and a style of officer order giving that was an insult to all those whose families suffered loss and bereavement in WW1.

The fact there are generations who do/did not know about the history and associated actions taken would be none the wiser if not for the media coverage and the memorial services held. There seems to be a desire to airbrush our history and I find that very sad.

To me the fact that representatives from 'all sides of the conflict' stood side by side in remembrance of the futility of war and to remember the sacrifice so many families suffered on all sides was good to witness. I still think it was just about right and showed humanity can move forward after conflict and gives hope for future generations who are sadly seeing blood being spilt on a massive scale once more.

I guess it's one of those thing's where we will all have varying views but aren't we lucky to be able to express them , our fortune could have been so different, that we will never fortunately know.

I think quiet reflection is indeed the most appropriate response. The media, who ar always struggling to find new things to report, seem to have latched on to every possible new angle that they can find (e.g. women in the war etc.).

It would have been good to have a reflective discussion programme that looked at the causes of the war and how steps towards peace can be encouraged and supported - but too afraid of being bottom of the ratings I guess.

And me!

Very well expressed Flickety - I agree entirely.

To be honest I am getting fed -up with the constant harping on about WW!. There doesn't seem to be a single programme on R4, my media mainstay, that doesn't keep referring to it.

Do not get me wrong I am only too aware of the war, its loss and what it means. I come from an army family. My grandfather served in both World Wars and his seven sons all served in WW2, we have a photograph of my grandfather and 7 his sons, all in uniform. My maternal grandfather is unknown to me. He died in WW1, so did his brother, my maternal grandmother's brother and a cousin of my father.

But this constant bringing WW1 into everything strikes me as egregious and self-indulgent, done by people more interested in bathing in reflected glory than contemplating quietly and thoughtfully the horror of the event and the devastation it wreaked on families in the UK. The children like my mother and sister, who grew up fatherless - and that affected who they were throughout their lives. Women like my grandmother who lost all the men in her extended family and was left supporting two children, her aged mother and invalid older sister on a corporal's pension and what else she find the time to earn.

I was very moved when walking through the Peace Park (not sure if I've got the name right as it was many years ago) in Hiroshima I saw a group of small children at the Children's Memorial. We also passed trees with white messages on them. I wondered when we visited the Museum there which was full of Japanese people that there would be some animosity towards us but there was none - at least I was not aware of any. I learned from that that each of us, in our own way, commemorates whatever side we are on and it is the 'ordinary' person who suffers at the hands if the people who think they know best

Obviously we all will have differing views on this subject but for me I honestly think both the ceremonial/remembrance services in both the UK and other European countries involved were just about right.

As for the bells tolling all over Europe on a specific day am I incorrect in thinking there is a different date between the countries involved and their official day of remembrance? Perhaps that's why it could be difficult to designate a specific date, just a thought.

I think, as has been mentioned on other threads, the poppy display in London is unique wonderful.

test

I agree with you mishap. Whilst I think it is valuable to quietly remember the terrible cost of war to all people, including our then enemies, I too feel that elaborate ceremonies involving fly pasts, guns being fired, etc., etc., are totally inappropriate.

As I've said before, stirring words from politicians about the futility of war sit rather uncomfortably with their stance in relation to the arms industry.

Fly pasts always move me to tears. It's amazing how much you can remember in those few seconds they fly overhead.

Mamie - I share your distaste for the re-enactment style commemorations. Tolling of bells sounds appropriate and simple, and it makes clear the seriousness of the event and the deep effect on people's lives.

I would like to see the remembrance being marked by some study of attempts at peace - looking at how people over the generations have tried to establish organisations for peace, and the stumbling blocks that they meet - I do think this should be a part of our remembrance, rather than just looking back - especially in schools, where there needs to be some sense that there is some hope and that the children themselves might some day be a part of that.

That would be nice LONA, and SIMPLE!

I think the tolling of bells across Europe at a set time would be a lovely, simple way to remember.

The most intense and moving remembrance service I have ever attended was in a middle school where the majority of the pupils were the children of serving soldiers. They understood very well what it was about.
I hate re-enactment and dislike the people who turn up here in Normandy dressed in uniform with military vehicles every year. We were once in one of the cemeteries where a group from the UK were noisy and clearly having some sort of a jolly. Completely inappropriate.
I found the tolling of the church bells across France to replicate and commemorate the call to arms for the general population on August 1st 1914 very moving in its simplicity.
I haven't watched much of the UK TV stuff partly because of the dreaded re-enactment and also because OH is driven mad by inaccurate footage from archive which is used to illustrate an entirely different event. I am finding the Portillo programmes about the railways interesting, though.

Here in Belguim children learn about WW1 and WW2 from primary age. This can include in some areas tending the graves of the fallen and finding out about the people themselves.
It is an important part of their social history and the children are taught to respect the losses.
It is not 'celebrated', the 11th Nov is a National 'holiday' here and in some places all the traffic lights turn red at 11.00am.
Both of these wars affected all of us in Europe in some way, I personally think children are often a lot more 'savvy' than the older generation think and a good grasp of history is important.

I endorse the idea of remembrance, I just find that the inclusion in those events of weaponry very strange. We should indeed not forget the past, but it is how we remember that matters.

I agree that young people need to learn about what happened; I just feel that primary school is too early. There will be plenty of messy reality to get a grip on as they mature, and can grasp some of what it is about, and the politics that lay behind it all. Little ones will just grasp the slaughter and the concept of "baddies." Rather than talk about the blood and gore, we should be talking with them about how they can live peaceable lives themsleves, and about the organisations that work for peace.

I do not think that we can necessarily hope that their awareness as they mature will prevent such a thing happening again. The world is heaving with war, and we cannot assume that those waging war have no knowledge of history.

Remembrance Sunday is always a difficult one for me as I can hear my Dad's voice ringing in my ears - I have to give credence to his view, as he was actually a part of war, and I thankfully have not been.

I have attended events where the "gung-ho" element made me shudder.

We are all eventually forgotten after we die when our immediate friends and family are no more. It is just what the cycle of life and death dictate. We can do no more for those who died in the First World War except work towards peace - that is the best way of honouring them. I am not sure that parading weapons around is the best way of achieving that. Something with a bit more subtlety and an emphasis on working towards peace would seem more appropriate.

I respect the views of others on this, and realise that I am out of step, but I was just interested to see whether anyone else shares my reservations.

No, not celebrations. Just commemorating it.

I don't like the sound of the gun thing. Unless it was to show that the horses suffered too.

They are not celebrations, but as Sunseeker says, remembrances. Remembrances, and reminders and messages that war is to be regretted.

The reality of war is to know about weapons and the havoc and destruction they can cause. It's not good to forget and equally I think, we cannot shield children from the messy reality of life - and death. Switch on the television and radio and war and death dominate our screens. As children grow and mature they need to have those conversations with informed adults so that hopefully they will work for peace when they too reach maturity.

As for 'remembering loved ones in their own way'. Many of those killed or injured had, or have, no loved one to remember them. Who will remember? A collective national remembrance is all that many will get, and as WWI retreats into history, I think it's even more important to remember the slaughter and mistakes and the bravery of those who took part, whether willingly or unwillingly.

I don't think it was a celebration - it was a remembrance. Why shouldn't children be taught about the terrible loss of life - hopefully it will stop anything similar happening in the future.

I hadn't heard about the event in France, but could this not be a way of showing how hard it was for those fighting?

I think it was Churchill who said "Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

I can understand why people want to acknowledge the deaths of so many, but I think for some there's an element of 'let's have a lunch/dinner/jolly of some kind' where all the usual suspects turn up for another freebie.

It makes me feel slightly uncomfortable.

Something went awry with the heading - sorry!