WHAT!!!

I had to check the calendar to reassure myself that it wasn't 1 April. I panicked, I thought I was loosing my marbles and didn't know the date.

Elegran

It's priceless. Just like the wonderful Joyce Grenville.

Or tobacco. Bob Newhart sketch on hearing of the new discovery - tobacco

I blame those pesky plant hunters. Joseph Banks. Ernest Wilson. George Forrest. Reginald Farrer. John Potts. Et Al (Al was probably the worst).

And Sir Walter Raleigh. Without him we would never have had potato blight and all the consequences of that.

Just like children!

If they would just eat them one at a time, and finish that one before pecking a hole in the next, no-one would mind.

I was on Gardener's Question Time once - my claim to fame.

Not blackbirds again, Elegran - you 'll get into trouble

At least it is veering back to gardening slightly.

Now, has anyone else had trouble with the blackbirds pinching their blackcurrants, blackberries, redcurrants and greengages?

Elegran

You got it

Pack up all your cares and woe
Here I go, singing low.
Bye bye blackbird.

Where somebody waits for me
Sugar's sweet, so is she
Bye bye blackbird.

No-one here can love or understand me
Oh what hard-luck stories they all hand me.
Make my bed and light the light
I'll be home late tonight
Blackbird, bye bye.

Black is black.
I want my baby back.

It's grey is grey.
Since she went away, wooh.

What can I do.
Cause I, I ,I, I, I'm feeling blue.

Quite. If derogatoriness is missing from a thing, that thing is not derogatory. Simple.

I missed out a relevant phrase at the end of the last paragraph - " . . . in a derogatory manner"

No need to now, G2, thanks to elegran. Spot on the mark as usual

Well GrannyTwice, I have only just come into this thread and I notice that you want to know whether there is a difference between a black mark on the wall and giving someone a black mark. Also, perhaps, the difference between a black mark of any kind and racistly referring to someone as a black person.

1) A black mark on a wall is a mark or stain which is of the colour black, as defined by 0 red light, 0 green,0 blue. No mention of people of any race or shade whatsoever.

2) A black mark given to someone is literally or symbolically a mark made on a sheet of paper in black ink (as defined by 0 red light, 0 green and 0 blue) No mention of people of any race or shade whatsoever.

3) Referring to a person by using their ethnic origin or skin colour as "black" is a hangover from the time when slaves of the colour black (or white) were considered inferior to those who were not enslaved. Specific mention of people of black colour or African ethnic origin.

It has to be 1 April in this parallel universe [despair]

I'm sure you did, G2...

Sorry Ana and Aka - mistyped.

I'm sure Aka doesn't rely solely on information from the DM and GN to form her opinions, GrannyTwice (although I don't think we've actually heard from Aka on this thread, have we? )

Ok Bags - your cage is rattled. Now explain to me why you don't think there is a difference between describing a mark on a wall as a black mark and describing unacceptable behaviour as giving someone a black mark

I don't agree that having pale skin necessarily means one can't tell what is racist and what isn't.

But Aka I read the debates and discussions that are contributed to by black people and value and give weight to their opinions - I don't decide myself what is racist or not. But then I work with people from a whole range of backgrounds and ethnicities where we discuss these issues and don't jet rely on the DM and GN

Yes, I am royally pissing off anyone who wants to feel pissed off. But the fact remains that people often see racism nowadays where there isn't any. It's also quite common to see something called racism which has nothing whatever to do with race even without any right royal pissing off. That pisses me off right royally. Well it would but I usually can't be arsed to be pissed off.

That bags stop it - you know exactly what you are doing. The difference between using black as a descriptor of colour as opposed to conceptually as a negative description. You are royally pissing me off because you know better

Well, GrannyTwice, maybe you are 'just wrong'. If you are a white person you are not qualified to judge what has racist overtones either.