Water cannon for London

So we've got three dodgy water cannons that the Germans have phased out because of "safety concerns" - another triumph Boris.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jun/27/water-cannon-boris-johnson-theresa-may

He's actually bought three without knowing whether they are legal to use.
Idiot. Pleased I do not live in London and am not paying for them. I presume the cost comes out of council tax.

www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/06/26/exclusive-boris-aide-warns-mayor-will-live-to-regret-buying

Boris losing support.

And talking to Stephen Lawrence's brother, grannyactivist.

Despatches tonight at 8 p.m. is about how complaints about police racism are handled. Should be interesting. Ade Adepitan investigating.

grannyactivist I shall have to concede the point as I have never experienced it. Maybe an alternative to protest marching? Although what, I have no idea. I know that if this kind of thing happens regularly (as has been said), I doubt I would attend a protest march knowing what was likely to happen.

Hollydaze The exits from the march were all blocked by police and people at the front were getting very angry and shouting at the police officers who refused (rightly in my view) to allow the marchers to walk to the BNP bookshop. At that point my daughter and I were afraid that trouble was brewing and we literally begged police to allow us to 'escape' from potential confrontation. Then police officers charged at protestors and all hell broke loose. There were idiots on the march who obviously were happy to escalate the violence, but we had been walking alongside grannies and parents with babies in pushchairs and lots of 'ordinary' people who wanted to protest at the rise of the BNP's racist actions. I was there because of the Stephen Lawrence murder that had just happened. A friend of mine who was in the police force at the time described to me how psyched up the police were and how many of them just viewed protestors as 'fair game' if they were on a march.
Again I do believe that there is more accountability in the police force now, but this has only come about because of past abuses being exposed.

How very true Penstemmon - I hope the tide is changing with regard to the covering of backs when it shouldn't be happening.

Rotten apples in every profession/walk of life. Important for the 'good apples' to be able to expose the bad ones but hard if it is the bad apples at the top!

Iam64 - as the saying goes: there's always one isn't there. Why they have to behave like idiots is beyond me and they let down all their colleagues at the same time.

We do get the odd one here too. The film called The Brychreem Boys was being made here and the lady that runs the local kennels rang me and asked if my German Shepherd would be allowed to be in the film for close-up and body shots (police dogs were being used for everything else). Feeling flattered, on my dog's behalf, I agreed.

All was going well until the two numpties turned up with their police GS - who were dwarfed by my dog. The weather was very sunny and my dog was getting too hot so I put him in the car and turned on the air conditioning to cool him down. The two officers came over to me, with their dogs, and the one prize idiot said, whilst bouncing a rubber ball 'do you want to try and take my dog's ball'. I'd seen him do this with other people and the dog went nuts. They had quite a job controlling their dogs in general to be honest. As my dander was up I said 'yes, I'll take your dog's ball' then turned to my husband and said 'would you let Ebon out of the car please' - strangely enough, both officers left

I can imagine though that it can be very intimidating but other than that one officer in particular (his partner was nowhere near as bad but didn't do anything to stop him), I havent' encountered officers that behave so anti-socially so it's hard for me to imagine it.

Yes I have taken part in a number of demonstrations in my YUF and whilst the majority of the police were polite and respectful there was the odd one who quite frankly needed a lesson in good manners.
This is a shame as they leave a poor impression as it is these bad apples you remember.

Imagine harder!

I'm trying, I'm trying!

I was with a small group of women on one of the big Greenham surround the base protests. Relationships between police and protesters was largely good humoured. We found ourselves backed against the fence by a very large police horse. This was a totally unnecessary and unprovoked piece of intimidation. I asked the officer to move his horse. He said he couldn't, it was too big to turn in the area. I very foolishly did what I'd have done in a similar situation, but not with a policeman on the horse. I took hold of the bridle, told the horse to walk on, and it did. As I was doing this, I told the policeman he could turn the horse on a 6pence if he had to, and his behaviour was not on. Amazingly, he rode off, much to my relief as I feared he could have found some reason to arrest me.
My experience of police at protests has been positive, other than that one incident, and that didn't end badly. At my father's funeral in 2006, several of his former colleagues in the police talked about the legacy of the miner's strike on police - public relationships. These men were all in their 80's, and firm in their belief it'd take 40 years plus to rebuild relationships with the public. These were not rabid lefties - in any way

Imagine harder! It happens! Many policemen are individually lovely people, I know a few but they are a uniformed force and have to follow instructions.

I can't imagine them riding full pelt at people just to disperse the crowd! Surely something must have happened first?

They wanted to disperse the crowd!

grannyactivist - what prompted the police to charge at the protesters?

www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/dec/22/kettling-video-appalling-police-watchdog

www.theweek.co.uk/politics/6213/police-kettling-peaceful-g20-protesters-was-illegal

During the student protest in November 2010 many people were "kettled", including several children between the ages of 11 and 16, for seven hours in freezing temperatures. A portable toilet was only provided after people had been detained for 5 hours. A Conservative member of the GLA described the kettling as "appalling" and told those who had been kettled to make a complaint.

Hollydaze you say that:
I still feel that once things start to get out of hand, peaceful protesters should leave the scene as quickly as possible - why would anyone hang around? If those who are peaceful leave as soon as the unpleasantness rears it's head, there is less likelihood of them getting caught up in it.

I would agree with your comment except that police sometimes deliberately stop people from leaving protests. I was at a big London demonstration in 1993; we were protesting against the BNP Bookshop in Welling, as its presence had provoked a number of racist murders in the area, including that of Stephen Lawrence. Trouble broke out when the police charged the demonstrators on horseback and followed it through by indiscriminately attacking demonstrators - some of whom responded in like manner. I was there with my, then, 17 year old daughter and was more afraid than I had ever been in my life. In tears I pleaded with police officers to allow us to leave and in response we were physically threatened by police officers with batons. It was the police that we were truly scared of and ran from - they appeared to be completely out of control and for me it was the biggest shock of my life. The things I saw that day completely changed my view of British policing and I have never regained the trust that was lost. (Other, subsequent experiences fed into and confirmed this view.)

Having said that I am NOT saying that there are not some wonderful caring police officers - there are several of all ranks in my immediate family - simply that I do not trust the police as an institution.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/17/caroline-lucas-cleared-anti-fracking-protest-charges&sa=U&ei=_8ucU6CUJIik4gTzuoD4Dg&ved=0CAoQFjAD&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNEcht9yYJEJGaj__RkvqRPxMxymEA

Wonder what would have happened here if they'd had water cannon? This was a peaceful protest, with heavy handed policing.

True penstemmon about the poor life circumstances of some of the people often involved in the rioting. But they can't be allowed to ruin other people's livelihoods, no matter how much sympathy you may have for their original cause. And the riots do attract other far less well intentioned people.

another point of view..or has someone posted this before??
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16325438

Good thinking, jingl! (yes, I know it's a serious subject...)

Good plan jingle I agree that looting and destruction are not part of legitimate protest but I do think some are instigated because of disaffection and despair. investing in youth and communities might help reduce the risk. Prevention is better than cure!

They could put the fire out at the same time. Two birds with one stone.