Are you proud to be British ?

Yes, read that.

The French navy had been asked to scuttle their own ships, which would have been done after emptying them of sailors, or to sail the ships to Britain or the USA where they would be used against the Germans.

If I thought about it at all, I think I assumed 'scuttling' the fleet was simply ships being sunk. Never thought there would be sailors still on board.

Such awful deeds all in the name of war. On all sides. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Makes me contemplate the rhetorical question.. if you knew what he was to become would you kill Hitler as a new-born baby.

Wasn't it? But I suppose it was thought that it would save more lives in the end. There were a lot of lives lost - it is not easy to know what would have been the best course of action from this time distance.

This was a few weeks after Dunkirk, and British troops were still being evacuated from Normandy and Brittany. On 17 June 4000 people were on the Lancastria when it was bombed off St Nazaire, laden with troops and refugees who had been taken aboard to be transported to Britain. The same day, German aircraft bombed a rail junction at Rennes where twelve trains were waiting, some full of retreating soldiers, some with refugees, and one full of munitions! which exploded, killing at least 800 - that was the number which could be distinguished and buried. Many more were believed killed.

That was just on one day, as Germany was defeating France.

What a horrendous loss of life.

Thanks Elegran it's not something I've often thought off since, but this thread jogged a long burried memory that only surfaces when I smell aniseed. I was completely ignorant of this event.

Here is one account.

Aka I think that when the French surrendered in WW2 (in June 1940), the British High Command decided that it was better to scuttle the French fleet than to have the Germans take it over intact and use it to invade Britain. If you want to know more (and accurately) then a bit of Googling would find it.

The French were not pleased (naturally) but if Britain had also been over-run, who would then have continued the fighting and defeated Hitler and co?

Yuk!

Or ouzo or arrak. All of them lovely

very pleased to hear that Aka, one must must let the side down, must one !!!!!!!!
I don"t know if we did !!

Yes Ana Pernod, but to me not as good , because although they seem the same,. they are very slightly different.

PS did we scuttle their fleet?

That's the stuff! Goes cloudy when you add water. I hate it but in the interest of the Scottish - French Entente Cordiale (?) I drank it all up.

Or Pernod.

AKA , Ricard is the drink you mean I just love it.
Bit on the pricy side here so DD & Sil always bring their "old Mum" a bottle back when they visit France !

I was once berated, in France and in French, by an elderly man who accused me (as a Brit) of scuttling the French Fleet during one of the World Wars. As I hadn't the faintest idea that 'we' were guilty of this I excused myself on the ground that I was Ecossaise (hope I've spelled that correctly?) He apologised profusely and offered to by me one of those French drinks that smell of aniseed.

Commonwealth games are coming up anniebach - time to sit back, watch athletics and cheer for the bit of the UK we belong to. Come back Colin Jackson, we miss you! Must check whether Dai Green on squad...

Thank you Aka and Elegran, it can be difficult trying to join in a thread as an 'outsider'

I find this thread most interesting, being British means little to me so reading what others regard as being British helps one understand

Honours are about even, I think then, between you and * thatbags*. She used an expression you didn't like, you responded with the "Little Englander" epithet, but said you were not outraged.

So any offence is cancelled out. Any further prickliness about it can be put down to lingering annoyance.

A storm in a teacup, so perhaps now the thread can get back to the original theme, if anyone is still interested.

It's easy when people have special relationships not to realise that others don't know the person and what is perhaps being over blunt simply sounds insulting.

Soop, I don't know thatbags, I don't know anyone here, I do recognise some names.

Elegran, who sets the line between insulting people and calling a spade a spade ? For me calling a spade a spade is an excuse for voicing ones opinions without a thought that what is said could be insulting or offensive, with a little thought an opinion can be given without being offensive . For you it seems calling a spade a spade no matter who it offends is acceptable ?

Oh for goodness' sake, there are 'weirdos' everywhere and I would include the EDL in that category. Narrow nationalism can be dangerous and, at its worst, has been known to result in ethnic cleansing. I don't regard Scottish and Welsh nationalism as dangerous. They are outward looking and inclusive. I can't see the SNP kicking out non-Scots residents such as my BiL who has lived there longer than I've lived in England.

Agree with both of the above.

Thatbags is not someone who throws insults around Anniebach, but she does call a spade a spade. You took personally a general and humorous sideways reference to jingoistic and paranoid nationalism - and believe me they are regarded as weirdos by a very large proportion of the population. I am sure that you personally were not being attacked.

Anniebach if you knew thatbags as well I do, you wouldn't have perceived anything remotely resembling an attack...just sayin'