Richard Dawkins in the elevator

As OP I feel I must defend myself from the charge of 'muck-raking'. I came across the story by accident, as I suggested, following a completely different link on a tweet from Huffpost! Better things to do than spend my time looking for discreditable stories about Dawkins!

..but Lily you did post it, so it's open for discussion.

If there's muck out there, why not rake it? Bet Dawkins wouldn't hesitate.

Yes, I thought it would start a discussion. That's why people post stuff. Posting doesn't equal muck-raking!

Well, in that case, I apologise, lily.

petallus, actually I went looking for stuff to exonerate someone whom I know not to be a misogynist and against whom a lot of bullshit is spouted.

So the question remains, is it sexist or for a man to proposition a woman (if that's what it was; looks likely but we can't really know) but to accept her refusal? I'd say no it isn't. I'd say that was civilised. I presume women do similar things sometimes. Are they being sexist too?

Was verybelittling for her. She had been attending a World Atheist Conference, and all the man in the lift could think of was getting her into bed. Where was the respect?

Yes. It was sexist. (She's a woman. Only one thing really counts)

What's atheism got to do with anything? [puzzzled] He fancied her, she either did or didn't fancy him but declined his offer/proposition/whatever, and that should have been the end of it. If she'd propositioned him I doubt he would have complained about it...

But he didn't pester her when she turned down his offer, so he might as well have been inviting her for coffee and a chat (which is apparently what he actually said).

So, would it be sexism if a woman had given the same invitation to a man? I'm sure it happens.

Well said, ana. Glad someone can see through the dross.

They had been both been attending an important conference about atheism. (God knows what they found to talk about but that's another subject) He should have shown her some respect. Wrong time, wrong place.

I guess if a man propositions a drunk woman in the elevator of their hotel at 4 am, and the lift is going up towards their rooms, there is sexism involved. She's unable to give consent if he's looking for sex, and probably doesn't need coffee in his room. I perceive it as him making assumptions that she might agree. Unless he was the type who wouldn't take advantage of a drunk woman, should she have said 'yes' to coffee? But then, if he wasn't the type to take advantage, he wouldn't have asked her in the first place?

Why? What's so solemn about atheism? Sorry, jingl, I just don't get your point. It could have been an important conference about anything...

Who said she was drunk? [puzzled]

I'm seriously losing the plot here....

That's twice I've done that - time to leave this thread, I think!

That's exactly what I meant Bags.

You wanted to exonerate Dawkins and looked for something to discredit the woman. You told us she was 'not an altogether nice woman'.

Not sure what you meant by that incidentally.

But what has her niceness or otherwise got to do with it?

Dawkins' post was childish and unpleasant. His misogyny comes through loud and clear to me.

Having said that, I've been to rather a lot of conferences in the past and it is often the case that people are hoping to get laid (not me of course).

The post where Bags quotes her - she said she was drunk herself.

Well, it would have been important to them I would have thought. Whatever, she was due more respect than that.

Think what the atheists would have made of it if it had been the other way round!

I'm with Bags. I agree with Dawkins! There are much worse things in the world.

That's beside the point Galen. We're muck raking. And enjoying it.

Well, I am anyway.

There are things much worse in the world, yes, but were asked our opinions about this issue. I agree with lots of things Dawkins has to say, but I'm not so sure he understands the psyche of women if he doesn't get that some situations aren't leg-over opportunities, albeit a rebuff accepted, and this example is one of them.

He might have just been asking her if she wanted a coffee?

Yeah, right!

I'm one of those people who prefer to ascribe innocent intentions to others, rather than always looking for the worst possible! Sorry!