Not all surgeons are like this.

So glad you have found a kindred spirit .

Hi Enviousamerican

I agree with what you are saying. The NHS are dealing a lot with the elderly and ones with dementia etc.
The type of ward my father was in only really had short term patients and generally they knew what they were doing. I agree Dad was elderly.
My father got up himself most of the time to go to the toilet etc and I think most of the other patients in that area were like that so he did not really need a great amount of care.
Dad did however like his 4am cup of tea when he was in the hospital.

Frank

Frank,so true. when I read about the problems with the NHS accountability is the main problem. It starts with basic care,everyone should do what is expected of them and fired if they don't. I know nothing is that simple but that's what it boils down too. why is your patient lying in a wet bed? Isn't it your JOB to check on him? we reported on every pt. every shift to the next shift.Also Dr. And there orders,was this done,no done etc. Looks like the whole process need looking at. I'm off Jack Straw's soap box now.

This is hardly noteworthy, Frank is it? "Sometimes patients fell asleep" - not unusual at night.

Enviousamerican

The night nurse at the hospital my father was in said one night they could be rushed off their feet and another night there could be little to do.
Sometimes patients just fell to sleep and did not move.
They did however look in to the rooms at intervals to see they were ok.

Frank

I should hope that not all surgeons are like this!!!

I always felt bad when i couldn't stay long and talk to elderly pts.it can be so lonely in the hospital.A lot of problems could be solved if they would just provide enough nurses to spend the needed time to take care of pts.We had beepers and I was always getting beeped to do something on top of my regular duties.

yes! He probably just felt like talking about what he knew with them.After all,they were visiting him.

Hi Enviousamerican

I think the medication was still in his system a bit as Dad seemed to think he was at work as he did have to discuss things with doctors and he knew a lot about operations.
Oddly enough he had a few conversations with the nurses and house doctors.
They said Dad was interesting to them. Some of the younger nurses did not know what Dad was talking about but most of the older ones did.
Even though the younger nurses qualified years after Dad retired they said things did seem to mainly add up with them.

Frank

I feel elderly people should be offered all surgical help unless it endangers their life,I'm sure everyone does also but I worked with pts.that had brain surgery and I'm afraid a elderly pt's. Recovery was not as good as a younger persons.

Glad that turn out well Frank.My experience working in a hospital What i saw was a lot of behavior not usual for the person.Medications and having been put to sleep effect older people because it takes longer for their bodies to "get it out of their systems."The liver has to process it. My late mother always acted different when in the hospital even at age 70.

Hi FlicketyB

My father had open surgery at age 85 privately and lasted 4 years and 9 months after that.

I was worried for 2 days as I thought he was almost going in to dementia.
The doctor came in and did his report and went out of the room.
Dad suddenly jumped up and said my car was going up the road. I looked out and it was the right model and colour.
He then pointed to a lorry and asked what logistics meant.
At that point I called the doctor in and Dad suddenly started to get more normal.
I am not sure if he realised he had an operation but as soon as he knew he was a doctor he started to talk about some of the hospital equipment. Dad worked in another hospital and helped with the development of some of the hospital electrical equipment and the doctor said Dad was making a lot of sense even though his knowledge was slightly out of date.
The doctor said Dad was coming back and did not bother with usual tests ie showing him pictures etc.
He had to tear up and re write his report.
My car was safe in the car park although that was the last of my worries.
Dad came home about a week later.

Frank

I think it is difficult to make generalisations. My very fit and alert father went into hospital at 92 with an infection where it was also discovered he had a failing aortic valve. The doctors immediately put his name forward for what was then an experimental new keyhole surgery technique for replacing the aortic valve. The operation was aimed at older people who may not survive open surgery.

The doctors reckoned that the operation would give him as much as 5 years more of active useful life. Unfortunately the infection was slow to clear by which time his heart condition was beyond repair.

But given how fit and busy he was, an active member of three local organisations, still driving, living independently, running his own life without any problem, to have such an operation at 92 seems not unreasonable. His chances of surviving it were high and he could expect to be in even better health after than before as his angina and breathlessness would have gone. He could continue to be a contributor to the welfare of his community for some years more and also be a contributor to the happiness of his family and friends.

Gosh Frank - I find myself agreeing with you- is it me? or have you turned over a new leaf?

dorsetpennt

I have to agree there. I have lifetime private insurance provided by my ex employers but use the NHS when there will be little benefit going private.

Sometimes the NHS gets criticised for not doing certain operations on older people.
I know some older people with private medical insurance and they have had a consultation with consultants privately.
The consultants have said they would do the operation if they wish but they think the risks of the operation are too high in view of their age.
I can see their point.
Is it worth operating on somebody who is 95 years old if the person will die in the next 3 years if they don't have it when there is a high risk of them passing away on the operating table?.
Most doctors would say no and I think I agree.

Frank

Having lived in countries without a National Helath Service, despite its many flaws, I am always very grateful to live in the UK and, to me, it's wonderful Health Service.

I had a problem with my shoulder a few years ago just before Christmas and I was booked to have it done privately after.
Suddenly on about 20th December I was in work at about 10am. The phone rang and the person said they had a cancellation that afternoon on the NHS. I spoke quickly to my manager and he said go.
When I got to the hospital I met the surgeon who was going to operate privately after Christmas.
He said at the time he saw me he thought private was best as there was normally about a 4 month waiting list on the NHS.
He said I had done the right thing and he said he would have taken that operation on the NHS if he had the same shoulder problem and the other surgeon was equal to him.
When I spoke to the nurse they said they had phoned several people who had been waiting longer than me and they did not want to come in just before Christmas and they just wanted to fill the space.

Frank

Nice to have this view stated - surgeons ( and other doctors) come in a range of sizes but the real villains are few and far between. My BIL sees a surgeon privately who had told him to delay surgery for as long as possible and I recently saw a surgeon privately who said I met the criteria for NHS treatment and he 'didn't want to take my money if that was so'