State enrolled nurses

I read your post with great interest nanapug. Are you saying that perhaps nursing is no longer a vocation?

No university can teach someone to "care" can they?

I think you may well be right. Surely it would be better to have another layer of people to do the tasks if those who have been educated to degree standard think they are above some tasks.

You could be right Movedalot but is that not what the whole SEN / SRN thing was anyway?

Any "nurse" who thinks they are above helping a patient to reach a drink of water or feed themselves, in my opinion should not be in the nursing profession at any level.

Have they been replaced by anything? Care assistants? Or are there only SRN's these days?

I think care assistants, some of whom have virtually no training, have taken on some of the tasks, including some "simple" medical care. The problem is that a lot of the really have no idea what they are doing. That said, there are others who do have proper training and provide a valuable back-up to the nursing team and real help to the patients.

These days the Health Care Assistants (Nusing Auxillaries to those, like me, who trained as an SRN) are doing dressings, taking blood etc.

Goodness knows what the nurses do as I watched a doctor trying to catherise a female patient on TV the other night and also pass a naso gastric tube - both procedures that were routine for nurses to do.

I so agree nanapug, was having a similar conversation the other day (in the real world). I had intended going into nursing and at school, because we were near the hospital I suppose, they had a sort of pre-nursing syllabus and we were streamed as to wether we were aiming for SEN or SRN. Yet SEN was still seen as highly respectable, a 'proper' career that had to be worked hard for.

nanapug

I do agree with you but sadly it is only part of the prolems within the NHS today. Albeit a big one.

Hello everyone, well I have recently joined and this is my first post, so I hope I get it right. Nanapug, I had to reply to your post because I totaly agree with everything you have written. I started my nursing career in 1968 as a pre-nursing student and then did my S.R.N training from 1970. Basic nursing care was a given, I remember my tutor saying to me in my first week something that stayed with me for the rest of my nursing career and which I passed on to others. It was simple really, " Think of the patients as your mother, sister, brother, father etc and how you would like them to be treated " To be clean, fed and treated with dignity is everbodies right and it really upsets and annoys me greatly to see how nursing has changed and I definately agree that my training on the ward and not constantly in a classroom was the best way of learning I could possibly have been given. Having a degree does not give you or make you a good nurse.
I was a patient myself a couple of years ago and couldn't believe some of the things I saw.
I hope I haven't rambled for too long, especially as this is my first post. And I have to say how much I have enjoyed reading so many interesting subjects that you all discuss.

that is very true nanpug I also feel that anyone who is not interested in basic things like actually caring if patient is clean and comfy and got drink in reach able eat food etc should NOT BE IN NURSING!!

SO WELL SAID Gillybob also.

the hospital at Colchester near us is being investigated, oh dear it makes me sad to think this should be necessary.
Is there no on to answer to no in these places??

positivepam - good name!
Nice to see a new name, and you did it beautifully! Welcome.

Hello, positivepam and welcome! I agree; my last but one Headteacher always told us to ask ourselves "Would I want my child to come to this school?"

Welcome positivepam If nothing else, you certainly get variety on GN !

It shouldn't be necessary celebgran but obviously is given what we now know about the level of care within some hospitals. Perhaps a group of us Gransnetters could do spot checks on them all.

Perhaps a good idea for a new thread Ariadne and something all Headteachers should be asking themselves!

nanapug agreeing totally with what you posted it seems such a shame that Staff Nurses are now found behind a desk filling out paper work and not using the skills they have on the ward to the best of the patients advantage.
Welcome positivepam nice to see you.

'Dr Foster' says it's because of the culture in the NHS www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9848414/The-frightening-truth-NHS-managers-are-incentivised-to-ignore-problems.html

nanapug I agree with you completely. I worked with some great SENs but we as SRNs were not above doing the bedpan round, washing patients, feeding them and anything else that was required. I would not have asked anyone else to do something I was not prepared to do myself. If they don't want to be hands on they should not be in nursing. I would have worked for nothing, come to think of it I practically did in 1964.
Welcome positivepam we were urged to treat our patients as we would like our relatives to be treated as well.

positive a very warm wellcome to you.

I couldn't agree more with op. I have niece who is going on to take her doctorate in nursing, in the USA I hasten to add.

Both as a doctor and patient I have seen a gradual decline. My favourite aunt was the last CNO appointed and you should hear her and the ex matron of Birmingham eye hospital on the subject.

I notice you started 1968. That was the year I qualified!

What a good thread.
I trained as an SRN from 1963 to 1966 and agree with all of you about the present standard of nurse training.
My DH had a cardiac bypass operation 10 years ago and the care he recieved was IMO not at all good.He had to be re-admitted as an emergency a week after discharge as he had developed a plural effusion. He came home after three days with a pressure sore, no one seemed to remember he is also diabetic and would be at risk of tissue breakdown.
After having his by-pass, he was returned to the ward after 2 days in ITU,told to go in the shower on his own and somehow manage to remove his TED stockings with which he was having difficulty.The stockings were the full leg ones and of course one leg vein had been removed to make the graft.This leg had surgical clips placed the full length of his leg from the incision.He thought he would rip his leg open and had to shout for help.After his shower no one came to show him or assist him to put the stockings back on until he asked.
He was discharged after five days, still very weak and unsteady.I had to ask for a wheelchair to take him to the ground floor and had to get the help of another patient to help me get him into the car.
Yes the standards of nurse training has definitly gone down despite degrees.Idread the hought of any member of my family having to go to hospital.

Sorry I meant to say another patient's relative to help me get him into the car.

It's me again and I just wanted to pop in and thank you all so much for your very warm welcome and I hope to join in many more of your discussions.
I am due to have an operation sometime in April(hopefully) so will report back on the care I receive. Wow it is so good to hear you talking about bedpan rounds harrigran, hmm does that make me sound a little strange? I also think that we didn't have all the "superbugs" etc they have now and I think that all happened when they privatised cleaning services etc. I can remember as a student nurse, if the matron came round and you didn't have anything to do, you would be cleaning cupboards etc. Aah the good old days.

We didn't, and matron was a scary lady!

nanapug my DD has just spent 8 weeks in a tyne/wear hospital. The attitude of some nurses was digusting ,that was across the board .

Welcome positivepam.

Some things have improved. I was in Stoke Mandeville several times about 40 years ago and Sister seemed to be more concerned that the pillow cases all faced one way and the position of the bed wheels than anything else . It was assumed because of my bandaging that I had just had my ears pinned back and therefore was not allowed pain relief but I mine was a rather more serious operation than that and I had to wait for a change of shift to get my painkillers. My son was not allowed in to visit as Sister said he was too young to enter a hospital. Thankfully such things are no more.

Just in passing Jimmy Saville was around a lot and all the staff thought he was wonderful.