Can I just warn any lurkers out there...........

Not really - they end up tens of thousands of pounds in debt and find there are no jobs that actually need degrees. I feel really sorry for young graduates - unless you want to enter one of the professions such as medicine or teaching it is probably better to leave school and try to find some employment that provides training. A whole generation were encouraged to think a degree would be a passport to a good career.

I'd still like an answer to my question, Greatnan.

Or perhaps I should have said 'an answer to my request'?

No degree here either I am afraid. Dyslexia probably put paid to that. 60 OU credits in sciency things though. Am I allowed to go on posting?

No sign of 'resentment' there either, I notice, Nellie! There are many reasons why people don't have degrees. What I do object to is assumptions that we who don't are somehow envious of or feel bitter about the achievements of those who do.

Why would anyone need to 'admit' to not having a degree? Or feel the need to list their alternative qualifications? And why would anyone imply that only graduates should be allowed to post? (O.K - that was jingle, so perhaps I should not have taken it seriously).
Why was the question of degrees introduced at all?
Is that enough answers, Ana - may I go now, please?

NfkDumpling I thought everyone on this thread was studiously avoiding oneupmanship and there you go, mentioning your 25 yard swimming certificate. Shame on you!

Like Ana I was wondering where the resentment was. Still can't find any despite the pleas for clarification of the comment. I should imagine that there are more GNetters who do NOT have a degree than those who do, it just seems that the relatively small number of people who post regularly mainly seem to have one. Maybe we can start a new thread, along the lines of Do you have a degree or not? Then ask everyone who reads it, including those who normally just lurk to say yes or no. Those who do, and wish to blow their own trumpets could even given give grades if they wanted and say which university they attended!

Getting off the subject of degrees and moving onto the way upset arises. I think some people find it hard to simply say 'sorry' I put that badly, or similar. Instead they have to pepper their replies with defensive questions.

Some people simply lack emotional intelligence.

What is so special about a degree or at least a first degree? It's not much of an achievement and proves very little about intelligence or other qualities. Lots of surprisingly stupid people have a BA or BSc. Not worth the paper it is written on if you ask me (which, of course, you haven't).

Thanks very much, absent! Well, at least I enjoyed my four years at St Andrews! And the varied career in education which my degree led to.
However, I take your point. My DS1 refused to do A levels and did catering which took him eventually into hospitality management and he is now doing well in a completely different career. DS2 got a first and a MBA and is also doing well, despite a redundancy a few months ago.

Knickers? twisted?
This thread was obviously started by jo in a bit of a wicked stirring mood. Worked didn't it.

JessM Most people of our generation who went to university enjoyed themselves – not all of them with the archetypal tabloid picture of permanent drunkenness, but because of the freedom, the opportunities for discussion, a chance to study a subject that they found interesting and the lack of real responsibility. I don't think the way the next generation is pushed through the further educational sausage machine includes much enjoyment at all. But be that as it may, I really don't think a first degree was much of a challenge to the average brain even in our generation's day. Nowadays when there are so many graduates, it's about as challenging and valuable as Nfk's swimming certificate.

I have the greatest respect for those who went to University and got a degree, I certainly acknowledge the amount of work that would have been involved.

However, as has been said previously having a degree does not necessarily mean the holder also has common sense. I know someone with several degrees who has worked at NASA but completely lacking in common sense. He once decided to do some "upgrading" of his house and took out ALL the toilets and showers at the same time - he had three small children at the time. My DH got a frantic phone call from his wife asking if he could go and sort something out for them.

I think when someone specialises in a subject, they focus on it so much that they can, sometimes, miss the obvious.

Still putting each down?? I guess I'll come back in a few days and leave you to it!

Re. my post about my two DSs. Guess which one has the more common sense. though I have to say that they are both wonderful dads and first rate cooks.

It's more a matter of intellectual snobbery. Some people look down on people who do not have a degree or some acceptable HE qualification. While the phrase 'university of life' has become laughable in some people's eyes there is actually a hard core of truth underlying the concept. Some people live and learn throughout their lives, gaining wisdom and understanding through experience and experiences.

jess and when – quite!

I got a cycling proficiency certificate when I was 11 (even though I fell off my bike in front of the policeman who was carrying out the 'test'). Seeing him not even trying to hide his laughter could have caused me no end of emotional damage, but I just got on with life....

whenim64 Who is putting who down? I don't care whether Gransnetters have a PhD in Underwater Basket Weaving or a primary school certificate for good attendance and I don't see why anybody else should.

Barrow I think you are so right about focus. Isaac Azimov wrote an interesting book entitled Above the Orchard. His premise was that science had become so specialised that a physicist, for example, on one twig had no idea what a physicist on another twig was doing, let alone what was happening on the rest of the physics tree. The whole science orchard was, therefore, completely impenetrable.

That's a bit of a put down in itself when

I must have missed the post where somebody said that people with degrees had common sense - and the one where somebody claimed to be superior for having a degree. It was jingle who introduced the notion of people needing to have a degree to post - I don't know why she did that.

I can't say I had a great time getting my B.Ed - I had two children under five and a long bus journey each day. I just knew I needed a career that would allow me to give my daughters the kind of childhood I had not had myself. So, no drunken orgies, just a four year slog to fit in all the studying, travelling, housework, cooking, shopping, and spending enough time with the family. My daughter also did it the hard way - she took an OU degree (does that count, jingle?) when she had six children and a full time job.

Surely the 'university of life' is a cliche - how do you escape attending that particular establishment?

I like that story about the physicists, absent.

Never said you could escape from that greatnan but that some people learned from it....while some clearly can't

Greatnan Studying when you have children must be a completely different experience from the carefree existence of the 18- and 19-year old undergraduates of our generation. A large part of my reason for emigrating is to give absentdaughter the time to study while I provide chidcare; she still won't have the same kind of university experience as younger students though.

I would guess you can flunk the university of life.