EHRC suggestion on toilet facilities

Our local library just has toilets no name given to them just four separate lockable rooms on an open landing so it would be impossible for a man to attack a woman as they aren’t ‘in’
anywhere if that makes sense Maybe that’s the way to go

Yes, that is a good model, BlueBelle, but it’s not always possible to achieve. If it became mandatory to provide numerous options a lot of places would have to close. At some point there has to be compromise, and IMO the idea of not having female toilets should not be an option that comes before not having separate ‘trans’ ones. Convert the Gents to ‘gender neutral’ if necessary? I have never known that to happen but forcing women to accommodate men in our loos is relatively common.

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Rightly so, IMO. Leisure centres are usually ‘sports’ centres anyway and as such are used to riding roughshod over the wishes of the population who pay for them. We have a new one in my town, and whilst it was billed as a leisure centre there is virtually nothing other than an expensive cafe that isn’t sport-based, and we have lost various community spaces to pay for it. People complained at the time, but as ever we were ignored - it doesn’t surprise me that the blinkered people in charge can’t see past their own needs to consider those of others. I’m pleased that ‘people power’ (which includes women) prevailed in your case.

David49

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Our local swimming pool has mixed changing rooms.

I still prefer going into the old ‘Ladies’ side, which is a bit daft, but the ‘Mens’ side just doesn’t feel right.

Obviously it’s lockable cubicles, not open plan changing.

David49

I was really surprised when the local leisure centre changed to mixed changing rooms, loud protests, they very quickly sectioned off an area for women only.

Our local sports centre changing room is mixed, “ changing village”, been once, never again. First week it opened, there was a bloke taking photos of young girls in the next cubicle 😩

OMG Mt61. I hope that sort of thing was stamped out at once. Just the sort of thing we don't want.

Aveline

OMG Mt61. I hope that sort of thing was stamped out at once. Just the sort of thing we don't want.

The guy was arrested. The saunas also became mixed. I used to love a sauna on my day off. Certain days for men, certain days for women but all mixed now 😩

As far as the danger of a man pushing a woman into a cubicle and assaulting her, honestly it would never have occurred to me.

That's exactly what transwoman Katie Dolatowski did, twice, to young girls aged 10 & 12 in two supermarket toilets.

had you had no time to use the ladies on the station, you would then have had to use the unisex facilities on the train - and those have always, in my memory been unisex, no matter how far you go back.

M0nica don't you understand the difference between a unisex loo which is used by one person at a time, as on the train, and a unisex loo with several cubicles and a shared sinks area as in most public toilets?

NittWitt

^As far as the danger of a man pushing a woman into a cubicle and assaulting her, honestly it would never have occurred to me.^

That's exactly what transwoman Katie Dolatowski did, twice, to young girls aged 10 & 12 in two supermarket toilets.

There are a number of reports when you google about assaults on women/girls in supermarket ladies toilets when all was quiet- its a male thing (and that of course includes aggressive men calling themselves trans) and all we can do is find ways of protecting possible victims.

We have to address male violence against women broadly not just lay it on the shoulders of one group.

We are laying it on the shoulders of men.

Thinking of my local supermarket toilets which are 4 -male group/female group/disabled/neutral family room they are down an ill lit corridor.

Actually far safer to use the family room. Would be far better if they had all been fronted on good view of the place generally

It's not just about fear of attack though. It's about dignity and privacy too.

Also, the Ladies is one of the few places where women are able to go to talk to one another without men - perhaps to tell someone they are afraid, to ask if anyone has a spare tampon - all sorts of things.

A book that had a huge impact on me as a young woman was The Women's Room - not directly relevant, I know, but it was a huge success, and was an overtly feminist novel. It's just popped into my head, and I realise I hadn't considered the relevance of the title until now.

We have to address male violence against women broadly not just lay it on the shoulders of one group.
Yes, that's would be men.

Katie Dolatowski is a man but it's relevant that he's also a transwoman because many people think transwomen are somehow not men.

"It's not just about fear of attack though. It's about dignity and privacy too.

Also, the Ladies is one of the few places where women are able to go to talk to one another without men - perhaps to tell someone they are afraid, to ask if anyone has a spare tampon - all sorts of things."

Yes definitely - in the gym I know well its a bit of a mini social hub at times, tho there is a cafe as well.

I think it will take rather some time but ultimately will have a positive outcome. I want my own secure spaces, I have had my bag stolen from a cubicled space before, they simply reached under, grabbed it and I wasn't suitably dressed to give chase.

Wyllow3

More the better, really. I mean individual ones.

Yes. Simply build unisex separate cubicles with wash basins in them. Older buildings won’t be able to be changed and just do this with new toilets.

Maybe having to provide 3 or 4 different toilets for Men, Women, Trans Men and Trans Women will just result in mixed toilets with complete privacy. Which I think will solve a lot of problems. I have never had any problems with mixed toilets and I know some men would prefer the privacy instead of having to use the urinals in front of everyone. I would not like it if the cubicles in women's toilets did not have doors so all the other women could see me going to the loo.

Luminance

I think it will take rather some time but ultimately will have a positive outcome. I want my own secure spaces, I have had my bag stolen from a cubicled space before, they simply reached under, grabbed it and I wasn't suitably dressed to give chase.

From the time that I first started carrying a handbag, if there is no hook on the door, if my bag has to go on the floor, I keep one foot inside the strap. I can't remember who told me to do this, but it was a very long time ago.

I think the reason cubicle doors aren't floor to ceiling is so that emergency services can access them if necessary.

Doodledog

I think the reason cubicle doors aren't floor to ceiling is so that emergency services can access them if necessary.

Yes, I believe so. Women will often retreat to a lavatory cubicle if we feel unwell.

When I was a teen, the local swimming baths had cubicles down the side of the pool, one side for girls/women one for boys/men.
3 sides went from floor to ceiling, but the front had an ankle depth gap at the bottom and a gap high up at the top.
Mothers or fathers took their younger children with them.
Of course there were no mobile phones then.
The number in the pool was limited by the number of cubicles, with some allowance for extra children.

I'm horrified by the idea of putting a handbag on a toilet floor, especially if the toilet is also used by males.
I'll contort myself to keep a hold of my bag, if necessary.

NittWitt

I'm horrified by the idea of putting a handbag on a toilet floor, especially if the toilet is also used by males.
I'll contort myself to keep a hold of my bag, if necessary.

I’m horrified too.
Not in the women’s toilets which aren’t perfect, but certainly not if used by men.
I have held mine between my teeth before now to avoid that.