Neighbours and their child

Yes mRydoll, like putting a complicated jigsaw together in order to see the full picture

Should read totally different!

The welfare of this child is paramount. Time to be proactive and and stop dithering.
There is a possibility that this child is already on the radar.

I always advised our staff that, even if they thought their information was irrelevant, once you joined up the dots, you might find a totally fifteenth picture.

This is also relevant and accurate.

Its important to know the nspcc do not investigate concerns, they pass then to the local social work team
The nspcc can be helpful in advising callers

On more than one occasion, I've rung NSPCC anonymously when I was worried about two different children. On each occasion I was listened to and assured that my concerns would be taken seriously investigated sensitively. Better be safe than sorry. A child's welfare is paramount...

You know what you have to do Cossy thinking of you

Cossy

The other thing I suspect, as do my adult children, is that he is left alone in the upstairs flat on occasions.

Ok Cossy -left alone warrants referral. In fact it’s one of the occasions immediate police response to 999 is needed

A child so young should not be left alone at home. You are right, you have to report your fears.

As you've revealed yourself as someone ,
who is concerned -your neighbours might guess , who has reported them to social services .
I hate seeing small children being shouted at as it reminds me of my childhood .
So if I'm worried about a child I report the issue .
I think that it's important to try to record the incidences .

The other thing I suspect, as do my adult children, is that he is left alone in the upstairs flat on occasions.

Madmeg

I am not at all sure whether or not you should get involved other than superficially, and other than keeping a record of disturbing events. I can't see anything that tells us how long the family have lived there, so I ask how long has this behaviour been going on? The couple might
"just" be going through a bad spell in their marriage, or other things of which you aren't aware. I'd also think that shouting and swearing in the garden is unusual if the child is really being abused. Cruelty is usually kept hidden from the public. I agree, it's not the best way to bring up a child but is there any evidence that the child is suffering - e.g. is he overly-quiet (unless crying of course) or afraid of other adults?

As someone said, does he appear to be clean and nourished?

You could possibly "pretend" to be going out somewhere when mum or dad takes the child to school and see how he behaves when out of the house. Plenty of children sadly live their early lives indoors at the top of a block of flats and though it isn't ideal, it doesn't equate with abuse. Maybe mum or dad have health problems that you don't know about that contribute to their behaviour with the child.

As for bad language, the child won't understand what most words mean, but teachers will notice if he uses them in school. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean he is abused - though again it is not what most of us would consider to be acceptable.

You seem to have already agreed that keeping a record and/or trying to record the arguments, might be useful in the future. I'm not an experienced user of Gransnet but I would suggest that if things develope you should come back on here and see what folks think.

They’ve lived next door for around three years, the shouting and crying has worsened over the last year!

Thank you all so much and I will anonymously report my fears, as I said earlier, better to be wrong and upset someone than be right and do nothing and risk the consequences.

Make a note of episodes you have witnessed, contact your local safeguarding children's team, outline your concerns. If your gut tells you something's not right, it probably isn't!
I think you have to have the courage of your convictions!

As I suggested upthread have a look at the nspcc site. It states people concerned about children can phone or complete a confidential form online, anonymously if they prefer. . It is very helpful and given your situation I would recommend you start there.
Any of the other suggestions are more of a risk that you will be identified even accidentally and presume you very understandably don’t want that.
In my SW role I have visited families where there had been reports from the public and they always wanted to know who had reported them , I never told them but they tried to guess, and always guessed wrongly. However in your case living so close etc it’s more likely that they will assume it might be a near neighbour.
Well done for caring.

A child should not be left to suffer because parents are going through a bad spell, or are experiencing health problems. They may need help and support themselves. Help is needed if a small child is affected. Bad language, especially if directed at the child, is not mitigated by the fact the child may not understand the words used. It must be frightening and threatening, and if the child isn’t apparently not affected by such treatment then things have already gone badly downhill and the child is becoming desensitised.

Keeping a record is helpful, but time is passing whilst you do so.

The OP has already seen and heard enough to feel concerned for the child, so it’s probably wise to act now.

I worked with children for 20 years, had lots of training regarding safeguarding, you can approach police, your GP, social services and child school.

I am not at all sure whether or not you should get involved other than superficially, and other than keeping a record of disturbing events. I can't see anything that tells us how long the family have lived there, so I ask how long has this behaviour been going on? The couple might
"just" be going through a bad spell in their marriage, or other things of which you aren't aware. I'd also think that shouting and swearing in the garden is unusual if the child is really being abused. Cruelty is usually kept hidden from the public. I agree, it's not the best way to bring up a child but is there any evidence that the child is suffering - e.g. is he overly-quiet (unless crying of course) or afraid of other adults?

As someone said, does he appear to be clean and nourished?

You could possibly "pretend" to be going out somewhere when mum or dad takes the child to school and see how he behaves when out of the house. Plenty of children sadly live their early lives indoors at the top of a block of flats and though it isn't ideal, it doesn't equate with abuse. Maybe mum or dad have health problems that you don't know about that contribute to their behaviour with the child.

As for bad language, the child won't understand what most words mean, but teachers will notice if he uses them in school. Again, it doesn't necessarily mean he is abused - though again it is not what most of us would consider to be acceptable.

You seem to have already agreed that keeping a record and/or trying to record the arguments, might be useful in the future. I'm not an experienced user of Gransnet but I would suggest that if things develope you should come back on here and see what folks think.

Thanks everyone for your useful input and advice and feedback.

I just know I’d rather be wrong and unpopular than right and do nothing!

I believe there should be no deliberation on your part. Fear of suspicion is no reason to not report. Being unsure is no reason to not report. If a child’s welfare is in question it is incumbent on the observer to report. It is not up to you to decide. Your concern is reason enough.
In Canada:
‘Under section 125 of the Child, Youth and Family Services Act every person who has reasonable grounds to suspect that a child is or may be in need of protection must promptly report the suspicion and the information upon which it is based to a Children's Aid Society.’
‘The Act defines the phrase “child in need of protection” and explains what must be reported to a CAS. It includes physical, sexual and emotional abuse, neglect, and risk of harm.’

This is a difficult one, Cossy. Like you, I believe shouting at a child is as bad as spanking, but speaking to the parents again will not do the slightest bit of good.

They doubtless will feel and probably say that the language they choose to use is none of your business and neither is the way the bring up their child.

On this last point, you, I and many others beg to differ, as we do think it is our business if the child is being harmed, or is at risk of harm.

If you decide to alert social sevices, either do so anonymously or ask them not to disclose your name or the fact that you are a neighbour. But I think you need more to go on than frequent crying, parents¨bad language and the fact that they shout at the child, if there is to be any hope that social services can do anything.

DO NOT approach the child's school - they can hardly report something that is only hearsay to social services. But if the child is behind in his speech, the school is presumably aware that there might be a problem in the home. However, they neither can nor should discuss it with you.

I am not sure that the frequent crying is an indication that something is wrong - it could be, obviously, but children of four and even nine and ten, tend to cry these days. We were told at four or five, that we were too big for such babyish behaviour, but this has changed.

Even if SS don’t take action they would keep a record of your concerns and further issues were raised in the future this be used as evidence

Imo speak to social services asap absolutely no point of wishing you had done so when it's too late. You and your partner may be overreacting but sounds like you are concerned and only wanting the best for a child who may, perhaps be being ill treated. Yes, the parents may well guess that it's you who made the call but so what? A child may be in need of intervention.

Mojack26

Last thing to do is for you to speak to parents. I would also do as a previous person said keep a record of where, when, who said what and date. As a retired teacher you then have facts to back up your concerns. I also agree if you know the school I would speak to HT to make them aware and they will monitor and, if necessary contact S Services. That way you are kept totally out of the loop. If you have serious concerns or welfare issues phone police... please do not under any circumstances speak to parents yourself,for your own safety. Hope this helps.

That’s interesting. When I worked with families in Early Years we were told that we should always speak to the parents and tell them we were contacting Social Services, as we were concerned for the child’s welfare, theory being that they would welcome help or support.
Mind you, that was as a professional rather than a neighbour, which would be a different thing.

Last thing to do is for you to speak to parents. I would also do as a previous person said keep a record of where, when, who said what and date. As a retired teacher you then have facts to back up your concerns. I also agree if you know the school I would speak to HT to make them aware and they will monitor and, if necessary contact S Services. That way you are kept totally out of the loop. If you have serious concerns or welfare issues phone police... please do not under any circumstances speak to parents yourself,for your own safety. Hope this helps.