My wife and Daughter in law

You will have to be strong and speak to your wife seriously about this. It seems to me that she is hoping her son’s marriage will fail. Talk to your DIL too and explain that she has at least your support. Honestly, your wife sounds an absolute nightmare. Does she understand that she could easily lose her son and his family with her behaviour?

You certainly sound a caring husband and father. I would agree that you should have a very serious conversation with your wife first, before any discussion with your son. It’s helpful to remember that words once said can’t be unsaid.
Ask your wife what ultimate outcome she would like to see, from what you have described it can’t be one that would make anyone happy. Then perhaps you could outline your vision of the way forward.
You mention that your wife has no hobbies. Is there something you could do together that would give her a different focus on life? Playing tennis, badminton or joining a rambling group.
As a Grandmother with two DILs I wish you all the best.

Until you and your son confront your wife about her behaviour, nothing will change.

She's got no reason to change, at the moment, because everyone is just putting up with her nonsense.

I would speak very seriously to her, and make it clear that this situation cannot continue. Your son also needs to "man up", confront your wife, and stand up for his. His wife should be his priority.

Or, failing that, move himself and his family far enough away so that they only have to see your wife a couple of times a year.

Your poor DIL - shes got so much going on, and needs support not undermining. Perhaps have a chat with her to show your support?

40+ years ago, I "was" your DIL. Toxic MIL, and upset/chaos all around.

I finally walked away from her, and I never walked back. She didn't see her grandchildren grow up, because her behaviour was impacting on them as well.

And, sooner or later, your DIL will do the same.

Good luck.

Your wife is toxic. I would have to tell her if she phones Social Services you will not support her as you don’t agree with her interfering, your dil is doing a good job. couldn’t stand by and let an injustice to your dil happen. I would have to take the consequences of that. Would also tell your son to man up, his wife and child should be his priority.
Pity you can’t go on a long cruise and leave them to it, joking aside, you shouldn’t have to live with all these dramas unfolding.

Wow that's a predicament? you have had some excellent advise on here.

IMO you must tell your Son what's going on in her head, that's not healthy? If he's so precious to her he might be a better placed to tell her to Butt out and tell her straight to leave her opinions in her own twisted head.
You will be man in the middle, for a while but if you let this go on longer it will be more damaging.
Best of luck.

Sit your wife down and show her this thread. Members of GN argue and disagree but in this case we are unanimous. You are a kind man and don't deserve to be estranged from your son's family which is what will happen. You have done the first stage which is admit there is a problem.

Have only read OP but:

Your DIL sounds like an amazing woman. Tell your son to get his head out of the clouds and support her, yes, even if that means going against your wife. Tell your wife firmly she is being unreasonable and unkind. Each time you feel this way, for a while, stand firm and point of that you disagree. Don't let her take your silence as approval. They are your children too, you have a right to an opinion so express it.

Incidently your fears of the outcome here are founded - you are heading for estrangment and your son possibly another divorce. I hope you manage to avoid this.

Deparate8 well first welcome grandad my heart goes out to you with this dilemma. You will have to be assertive and direct with your wife. Who needs to be told what she will lose if she continues with the childish destructive behaviour.

Give it a bit of time to sink in and then suggest your wife makes an appointment with the doctor. There could be a reason why your wife is behaving as she is anxiety hormones it’s worth consideration.

A serious talk with your son and DIL needs to happen too. Tell them your concerns and that you want your family together not estranged because of your wife’s behaviour. You won’t be piggy in the middle or sitting on the fence but an arbiter of peace hopefully. Let us know how you get on people who try to give advice do like feedback.

I feel so sorry for your DIL and what she’s had to contend with. You really must stand up to your wife and also have a conversation with your son. If everything you say is true your DIL must be a saint. Your son needs to realise his wife and son are his priority now not his mother and you need to step up.

Everything that everyone else has said.
Friend was to a lesser degree like your wife, she now has no contact with 1 son, is only used as a child minder by a second (whose wife doesn’t speak to DF), who holds her to ransom eg feeding the cats when they are away, a 90 minute round trip. She was told by third DiL to mind her own business as it was impacting on the relationship between husband and wife. Friend realised that if she didn’t DiL would make sure GC would be too busy to see nanny.
Good luck and do come back and let us know how you got on.

Desperate one of the things that those with a difficult mother or mil often struggle to understand is why the other parent who seems more reasonable stood back.

These days young people call that enabling.

If you don't stand back, you aren't enabling this behaviour. If you stand up to it your son and DIL will have a better relationship with you and your wife AND with each other.

What is difficult is that you have stood back for a long time and your wife has dictated the narrative. She may react very badly indeed when you try to tell her her behaviour is no longer OK with you.

For the sake of your children I agree that you have too. I can see why you need time to think this through. Just don't leave it too long because I think you will do this with kindness and dignity and whatever the outcome is, you will have done the right thing

Gosh, such in depth and voices of experience giving practical and wise advice here. I have absolutely no experience of your difficulties but I certainly wouldn't commend being confrontational with your wife. That could have catastrophic and perhaps unexpected consequences for both of you. My ploy would be to significantly build up your relationship with your son and DiL and make them fully aware of the strength of you support. No lies. No secrets. Your wife does seem to be heavily involved with your daughter which may afford you space to do this (with their willingness and approval, of course). You do say you love your wife very much. Hallelujah. You also say you may have deprived her of your time during your working life. Generous acknowledgement. You sound like a thoroughly good egg and I believe you could manage this situation with much diplomacy and a touch of the velvet glove. I certainly found your contribution here credible and worthy of support. Good luck ?.

Sorry to be blunt but this is a difficult situation which will deteriorate if you do not face up to your wife about her intolerable behaviour; I use the word ' intolerable' intentionally.
Your poor daughter- in-law; a hostile mother-in-law, a difficult birth, poor hospital care, family bereavements, struggling to breastfeed, and your wife lets it be known she is jealous because she is able to breastfeed, and other members of the extended family saw the baby first. Her proposal to your son that she contacts Social Services about his wife is shameful.

You are clearly very disturbed by her behaviour, and the next time she mentions the situation you must tell her pleasant, firmly but absolutely uncompromisingly that you will not support her in any way. Social Services and Health Visitors are primarily concerned with keeping the child with the mother and the mother with the father, and will only remove the child if there is obvious neglect, which is not the case here. Your daughter-in-law may well be suffering from post-natal depression, and who could blame her; your son needs to take more responsibility for his family without relying on his mother; he has one failed marriage behind him and needs to do some serious thinking about his new one.

I don't know how much influence you have with your wife; it sounds as though she has pretty much had her own way in her life, but now that is causing serious problems for your son and daughter in law and you are rightly concerned.

Sometimes firm resistance from a generally passive partner has shock value. I don't know if talking to your son would do any good but it may make him confront his own behaviour if you show your disapproval of your wife.
Whatever else, you can't leave this matter to go away, because it won't, and the well-being of your daughter-in law and grandson are absolute priority.

Desperate
Dare I say it, you seem afraid of your wife, and she knows it.
Maybe you need help with confronting the ogre ( because that is what she is)
Why not talk to you son man to man and confront her together.

marymary62

PS you say you do not know how to approach this with her . It is never going to be easy especially if you have never challenged her much . If you can’t say the things you have said here then I would suggest that you try writing it all down again, based on what you have written here, and give it to her as a letter. Concentrate on the issue that is most urgent ie the relationship with your daughter in law and the ‘plan’ to contact social services rather than the whole situation with how she has created dependency with your son and daughter . Make it clear, as you have done, that you love her but can’t support her behaviour. You have every right yourself to talk to social services and contradict her ‘tale’. I’m sure they will see how ridiculous she is being .

If I was in your situation I would start off by writing a letter as marymary62 suggests. It sounds as though your wife may not let you say all you want to, by arguing, and at least if you have written it all down (maybe go out of the house after giving it to her!) she won't be able to argue with you immediately. Even if you decide in the end to speak to her, the writing down of everything will clarify your mind, and allow you to feel more confident talking about it.

You do sound like a considerate kind person and it also sounds as if her behaviour over the years has become a habit, which will need a huge committed 'nudge' to get her to realise it is unreasonable. I wish you the very best of luck; in my opinion you are doing the right thing.

She really needs tools and in no uncertain terms. She has been able to manipulate and run this family for a long time and I feel she needs to stop this interfering behaviour. She will do a lot of damage if she contacts social services unduly causing another rift in your family. She needs to be needed and I can understand this but it will be better coming from you and tell her the damage she’s doing it seems to me it’s her that needs help as much as your dil.

I have nothing to add to all the comments so far but just wanted to welcome you to GN. You sound such a lovely man Desperate8 and I'm sure you will find a way to tackle this

The old adage “nothing changes if nothing changes” comes to mind.

What a terrible situation. I am sorry to say that your wife sounds very domineering and that you are indeed scared of her. You must pluck up the courage to confront her with your thoughts on her completely unreasonable behaviour towards your DIL. You also need to find the courage to say that if she carries our her ridiculous threat to contact SS, you will ring them yourself to let them know that your wife's concerns are completely without substance. You then need to speak to your son and remind him that his wife and son are his priority - and he must learn to stand up to his mother's deplorable behaviour. I too am quite passive, hating any confrontation, but if I witness any injustice I will speak up. You must too.

I have been thinking about this situation since I posted.

Is there any way you can form an easy relationship with your daughter in law without your wife's malign presence, simply to signify your approval of her. My father, not the most sociable of men, took to dropping in ,' just passing', with some excuse, but really so he could see the children,. (my mother was not a malign presence but I think he just wanted some time with the children on his own.)

Would you be able to drop in, briefly, with the excuse of some surplus vegetables/flowers from your garden, something of your son's you found recently, borrow a tool for a job; just a simple excuse so you could admire the baby, tell her she is looking well, ask after her mother, then leave. Just so she knows you care for her, whatever you wife says/does.

I think behind this lies a loving and admiring husband with a strong willed wife, a man who enjoys a quiet life and has found it easier to shrug things off, rather than discuss matters with her when he felt she over stepped the mark.

He is now in a position where his wife's behaviour is causing a family catastrophe and he does not know what to do and , in his heart of hearts, is looking for a solution that does not require him to stand up to her and face her with the damage she is doing and telling her to stop.

Unfortunately, this is always the result if any problems that arise are not dealt withat the time, the minor niggle that a few words might solve, becomes a major problem that will only respond to some one who has always let someone ride roughshod over them for the sake of a quiet life. Suddenly that person has to stand up to someone and take an awful lot of flak, to make them see the error of their ways.

I wonder whether the OP is up to it?

But I see not other olution to this problem.

That’s a good idea looking at from a different perspective eazybee.

Redhead56

That’s a good idea looking at from a different perspective eazybee.

Yes I agree. It may not be enough without communicating somehow with your wife, but it would show your DIL that you care, which can only help the situation.

It’s very rare for everyone on GN to agree on a solution Desperate8 but here you have 100% agreement that something has to be done to stop your wife (who you have loved and lived with a very long time) on her path of destruction and jealousy and basically there is only you and maybe your son (who doesn’t sound as if he stands up to his mum either) to put a stop to it all and there has to be a stop put to it before her jealousy ruins her daughter in laws life and her baby grandchild’s life too
If your son proves too much like his mother to help, then it is you alone that must do this, unfortunately your wife will turn it all round and make it your fault as I believe whatever good qualities she has are well hidden to all except you and her children She sounds to the outside world a vengeful, jealous, overbearing woman with nothing in her life except her interference

Please please help your daughter in law either with or without your sons help

What a lovely man you are Desperate. Loyal to the woman you love, but not blind to her faults. Sensitive to your d.i.l. which enables you too see how she is changing and the affect your wife's behaviour is having on her.

I said you are loyal, an admirable quality but that doesn't mean you have to enable your wife's behaviour. You've been able to share a very difficult, sensitive and upsetting situation here and now you need to share with your wife, what you've shared with us.

As has already been suggested, one way would be to show her this thread including your OP but personally, I think that would be too much.

IMO you need to start with the present and then work backward. Start with your wife wanting to contact social services and tell her that would be wrong and she will not have your support, that if she does this, it will be your d.i.l. you'll be supporting.

This is the most pressing issue which needs to be dealt with quickly and decisively. Once you've done this, you can then talk to her about her general behaviour, how it impacts on your d.i.l., your son, you and even though she may not be able to see it on her too.

Be honest about your own role. Take responsibility for the fact that she "pretty much raised" your children; your words. That you've felt for a long time that she's been over involved in their lives but have failed to say so and so you are also responsible for how things are.

I'm sorry but you are, and walking away from your 50 year marriage wont solve anything in fact it will only make matters worse as her only focus will be on your adult children, on interfering in their lives and making your poor d.i.l. even more unhappy and withdrawn than she already is.

Your d.i.l. needs your help, she needs your son's help too and I hope that he'll be able to put his wife's and child's welfare before his mother's. You need to encourage him to do so.

Your wife needs your help too, to see that she's wrong and to see how much she could potentially lose if things don't change.

It wont be easy for her or for you but you want to do something or you wouldn't have come here, and that together with being able to see what's wrong is the first step. Now you must take the next one.