Woman

And if lesbians can choose not to include men as women in their relationships then any women, straight, bisexual etc can choose not to include men in the category of women. As you well know gagajo some gay men and some lesbians are gender critical, there is no uniform view on this subject across the gay community,
I am not entirely sure what you are asking trisher, I think in relation to medical procedures it's really important to talk about sex. So if a report is talking about pregnancy we know they are talking about the female sex.

By ‘female penis’ I was talking about men who say that they are women yet still enjoy having their todgers.
It’s a man thing

MissAdventure

That's a very kind offer..

Hahahahahaha

FannyCornforth

‘Female penis’ ?

My posts about 'female penis' were in response to your post. You wrote about it so I (someone who has empirical evidence, from a trans man) clarified. At which point you told me I was wrong, at which point I showed you that I wasn't.

Mollygo, as a sometime lesbian your questions bear no relation to anything I've experienced in the gay community. I'm assuming you are a cis straight woman. WHY are you trying to put lesbians and trans women into your categories? I can't answer your questions because they're irrelevant. ALL the lesbians and transwomen/men I know believe everyone has freedom to chose their sexual partners. If the answer isn't clear enough for you, rethink your questions.

Why is it that. those who don't accept transpeople always accuse anyone supporting them of believing lesbians should be forced to have sex with someone? Is that the best you can do in the way of argument? As for all the "I don't notice/accept/conform to gender roles, well bully for you, but that doesn't help someone who feels they are being forced to conform to a gender role they don't fit.
And noone has answered my question if the article had said pregnant women were not being vaccinated and one transman was refusing would the inaccuracy be acceptable?

Being a woman isn’t all about intercourse and who does what with what.
Honestly…

That's a very kind offer..

You could chop off my clitoris or inflate it with a balloon pump, and I’d still be a woman

The thread is about terminology. My question to you was about what terminology commits you to.
You use the term transphobic. I asked you a specific question about what makes someone -a lesbian in this case, transphobic.
Once again you avoid answering.

Mollygo, I stated this point on a previous thread. Every individual, whatever sex/gender/ethnicity/age makes their own decision about sexual partners. That is not the topic of this thread. This thread is about terminology.

No I'm not. I'm talking about what you would regard as normal women. Clitoris size varies. And it gets bigger when transmen take testosterone. Big enough at times for a transman to manipulate as a penis. I got this s information from Del La Grace at a lesbian/gay conference a few years ago.

I think it's you that doesn't understand trans. Maybe do some reading of the writings of a transman.

GJ would you like to give your opinion on whether lesbians should be obliged to accept transwomen as lesbians and have sexual relationships with them, or risk being called (as they have been) TERF, transphobic, bigots?
Just to clarify your position for me.
You don’t need to write a long answer unless you wish to but please answer YES or NO

1. Yes, you do think lesbians must accept transwomen who want sexual relationships with them.
No, you don’t think lesbians must accept transwomen who want to have sexual relationships with them.
2. Yes, you think refusing such a relationship makes them transphobic, TERF etc.
No, you don’t think refusing such a relationship makes them transphobic, TERF etc.

JoYou are talking about intersex, I’m not.
‘My knowledge base’ - do women need one of these?
Anyway, there is no point in us arguing about this here.
Perhaps if we were having a chat in the staff room or the pub we might get somewhere, but that’s obviously not going to happen here!
Let’s part as mates

Excuse the typos pls. Phone!

And I've explained where both my theoretical and real life experience of trans com s from.

What is your knowledge base?

How on earth was I being patronising?
I said that I didn’t think that you knew what you were talking about

But it is still genetically male or female, apart from in intersex people.

Fanny, I'm not going into details about my studies in but suffice it to say they were on this topic and I've worked in gay and lesbian groups that supported trans people as part of their work.

Try not to be so patronising.

FannyCornforth

‘Female penis’ ?

While I REALLY do not want to get into a discussion about it, some women do have clitoris that are big enough to look like small penises. And with the addition of testosterone, they will grow bigger.

Our genitalia is not as diametrically opposite to that of the male. Up to between 9 & 11 weeks, the fetus has not developed internal/external sex organs.

Sex is not the monolith we make it out to be.

GJ I hope that you don’t find this insulting, but I honestly don’t think that you know very much about trans issues

Thank you for that GJ. I didn’t actually mock anyone-but hey ho, if that what you want to say I stand by your right to say it and don’t ridicule you for it.

‘Female penis’ ?

Galaxy

You mean transmen I think.

I do Galaxy. Thank you for clarifying.

But Mollygo, it is one thing to not approve of someones choices, but quite another to mock them for it and make them a figure of fun. That is inhumane.

No, I don't agree with your opinions. But I stand by your right to have them and don't ridicule you for them.

GagaJo

So even if you didn't find them threatening, you'd laugh at them?

Unfortunately, that shows your true colours.

GJ We’ve simply moved this discussion from another thread. I already know what your colours are and you already know (unless you don’t actually read my posts) that I think men are welcome to call themselves what they like, dress as they like and behave as they like as long as it isn’t harmful, or damaging to the lives of the natal members of the sex they aspire to be.
Being damaging or harmful includes taking natal women’s places by virtue of male characteristics and making natal women feel uncomfortable or even frightened by their being allowed into places where natal women should feel safe from men (whatever they are ID-ing as at the time).
This doesn’t mean all transwomen, but the damage done to transwomen by people like Karen White is unforgivable.
The Just Like Us group used pictures of lesbians protesting for their right to same-sex attraction as an example of transphobia. My lesbian friends have told me that their dating apps are around 40% male, that they’ve been told that ‘female penis’ is just like a strap on or getting called TERF for refusing males.