People who menstruate

maddyone perhaps there is a polite way of simply naming it after the anatomy it needs to contain.

I do understand how it seems ridiculous, I don't think it detracts from women though. I feel as if it is the opposite and woman become as equal being people too rather than the lesser important people.

Perfumes and deodorants could be described by the scent not the gender because maybe a man wants to smell like vanilla or roses and I don't see a problem with that.

Also, I really like my husbands deodorant and quite often pinch it, it says "men" on it lol

Understand my friends frustration at hating the colour pink when buying "feminine" anything.

Also understand my frustration that my daughter loves pink and finding things that are pink like toys and products as more expensive! A colour doesn't cost more.

Its a whole spectrum of issues that actually impact everyone equally in some way shape or form

The trouble is the whole thing is so regressive and muted in sexism, the words dress like a woman, I thought we fought that battle 60 years ago.

@Starblaze
Why did you highlight my name in your previous post?
No amount of people tagging me in posts telling me I am wrong or that I don't care about women or that I am not a feminist should expect me to change my opinion.
I have said none of these things and it would be good if you stopped attributing words to me that I have never used.
Please highlight the people that have said these word to you.
Because it's not me.

There is a further problem. I have already mentioned that my old mum uses ‘sensitive bladder’ products, and that there are similar, but different products available for men. In the fullness of time, some trans people will require these products and they will need to buy the correct product otherwise it will be ineffective. So how are the manufacturers going to communicate to people exactly which product will perform the best for them. The ones made for men apparently have a different shape than those made for women, which are very similar to a normal sanitary towel. Surely a trans woman who has decided to not have surgery will need to buy the ones marketed for men. Is this a problem? To be honest the shop assistant doesn’t care what’s in your basket. You could be buying a product for someone else. I have bought bladder leakage pads for my mum, do I worry that the shop assistant thinks they’re for me? No.

paddyanne
Please don’t condemn me to being without compassion. I have already said in my original post that I have absolutely no problem with trans people. As for gay people, one of my sons is gay, so I think you will understand that we, as his parents, love him unconditionally as our son, and we love his partner and their child. However this thread is not about gay people, it’s about companies airbrushing women out of the picture. The product I mentioned could very easily have used different language on their packaging addressing the fact that the product was sanitary protection without airbrushing women out of the picture.

That is my point.

Well you live and learn as they say and I never knew that trans men menstruate. I don't understand wanting to change sex at all, I really don't and totally don't get it. But to say products are for people who menstruate is crazy and shows the silly times we are living in. Thankfully all over and done with that now - it's great!

I really can’t see what people are getting so stressed about. These products are for people who menstruate - that is correct. I don't, so I don’t need them, although I’m
a woman.
I think it’s unnecessary to state it (should be obvious) but factually correct.
Transgender people in women’s toilets is a whole different issue with many implications.

That's the point of general discussion though isn't it flowershop

If you look back, you will see me giving my opinion and others pulling me up on it. You will also see me saying that I don't understand the opposite opinion but I understand they feel that way.

No amount of people tagging me in posts telling me I am wrong or that I don't care about women or that I am not a feminist should expect me to change my opinion.

"right" or "wrong" is subjective in a discussion where people do not have experience of being trans or have not some sort of specific higher education and years of work and research on that very subject.

So it is all just opinion. No one gets to be right or wrong with opinion, just agreed with or not.

I'm listening and my mind is open, that's what makes a good dicusiion for me, that should be good enough.

It’s not excluding women, or redefining them.

Yes, it is. Only a woman can menstruate and no matter what physical, medical or emotional intervention takes place, a male cannot. Therefore, please can you explain why the key word woman is being removed from products that only a biological woman can use?

Starblaze

Flowershop but I don't agree with you. My own reading doesn't agree with you. The doctors and scientists who have spent years gaining a high education, letters after their names, doing research, changing the structure of the DSM and finding/implementing treatments to help people correct their gender.... Don't agree with you. Trans people do not agree with you.

Yet you and others like you think your opinion makes you "correct" and me, trans people and a huge amount of very educated individuals "wrong".

I do not have to accept that I'm afraid.

That's ok. That's your opinion. I have also read extensively on this subject and I disagree with you.
There are many people that agree with my opinion. I will never agree that a woman is a feeling inside someone's head.
I'm not in the least bit afraid to refuse to accept your opinion. Actually I'm quite pleased to refuse.

I agree with starblaze. Although it’s not necessary to say who the products are for , they are, actually for people who menstruate ie women between about 12 and 50, or trans men the same age. Whats the problem? I’m not a person who menstruates (any longer thank goodness) so why would I need these sanitary pads or whatever they are? It’s merely a factual description of who they are for. It’s not excluding women, or redefining them.

I was wondering "Pose" is set in the 1980s when there were trans women identifying and dressing as women, many without undergoing surgery. So in the last 40 years while these women were using women's facilities and passing as women how many assaults in those facilities have been committed by them (if any)?

But Granny23, your granddaughter is female. That’s why she has started her walk towards womanhood by starting to menstruate.

maddy I have two young friends transitioning from female to male ,in all honesty I have never thought about the fact they may still bleed but I do know that one of them uses a disabled toilet when out because he was verbally abused in a mens loo ...even though he was using the cubicle .If we cant have compassion for people who have troubled lives and difficult times ahead WE are the ones with a problem .If period products say for "people who menstuate" does it really make any difference to how YOU live your life?
Its the whole same sex marriage issue again,people who thought 2 men or 2 women getting married devalued their marriage .
Surely marriage was devalued decades ago when the to death we do part became until we get bored or the passion dies and we look for another person to turn us on instead of working at what we vowed to work at ?
In the same way this is a nonsense ,IF some people who are growing beards but haven't completed transitioning NEED sanitary wear that no ones business but theirs and its not up to you or anyone else to make buying them difficult . Its much more humane to help than constantly oppose or find fault .I have never felt my "status" as a woman was under threat ,I wonder why so many of you do ?

H1954
You may very well be correct, but the company still sells many, many other products that are aimed, and sometimes specifically say, at either men or women.

I agree with you Chwbacca, I really feel that it’s women who are being targeted by airbrushing the word women from products that only women use.

It has all become so complicated. I, at 74, do not menstruate. My 11 year old DGD does menstruate. I identify as a Woman but would argue that DGD is still a child or a girl.

It's fine to not agree with other's opinions Starblaze, that's what discussion is all about. Just as it's absolutely fine for the majority of posters on this thread to not agree with you, or other gender deniers, that this seemingly tiny little act of airbrushing the word woman from the lexicon of femail descriptives, is a huge step against everything that the feminist movement has worked for decades to improve.

Totally agree with mrsHom. I am NOT against transpeople, bu feel that the majority of women are being bullied by a very small minority.

I was just wondering if anyone on GN has watched 'Pose' on BBC i-player? It's a series about transsexual and homosexual culture in 1980s USA, at the time of the Aids epidemic. It's very enlightening. And it's set 40 years ago.

Maybe the company had been pulled up previously for not being diverse in their marketing strategy and are protecting themselves?

Flowershop but I don't agree with you. My own reading doesn't agree with you. The doctors and scientists who have spent years gaining a high education, letters after their names, doing research, changing the structure of the DSM and finding/implementing treatments to help people correct their gender.... Don't agree with you. Trans people do not agree with you.

Yet you and others like you think your opinion makes you "correct" and me, trans people and a huge amount of very educated individuals "wrong".

I do not have to accept that I'm afraid.

Galaxy

They are not removing themselves from any battle and I think it's really cruel to tell them that. So if a woman identifies as gender neutral it will have no difference on the discrimination they face due to sex. They will still be at high risk of sexual assault, they are at the same risk of discrimination in the work place if they get pregnant etc etc.

Galaxy I don't think I (or anyone else) has any right to tell a young person what they should think or believe. They, like anyone else, are entitled to look at the issues and draw their own conclusions. The "removing themselves from the battle" was simply my way of trying to express what they are doing. I think it's very interesting and the outcomes are worth watching. I do think the constant dismissal of all ideas about gender on GN is very reactionary. In the 1970s we thought things would be better for women because we campaigned for legal changes but it hasn't worked out as we hoped. This may not either but that doesn't mean they aren't entitled to try.

Can’t help you there Grannnannywanny

It seems to me that a great deal of products that are produced and sold are marketed for one gender or the other. A walk around the shop which is marketing these sanitary pads has ranges of face creams, deodorants, hair care products, shower gels, and probably many more products all aimed at one gender or the other. This is made obvious by the choice of packaging, usually darker colours for the men range, and lighter for the women range. I could quote actual products but I don’t think I’m allowed to so I won’t. As I mentioned earlier, the ‘sensitive bladder’ products state on the packet that they are for men. The others that my mum uses, presumably for women, simply state ‘sensitive bladder,’ so it seems her femininity has been removed, but not the masculinity of the ones for men. Someone has mentioned razors, some marketed for men, others for women, usually claiming to be sensitive.
If we were to go down the road of gender neutral, all of this would need to be changed. Is that what the public want? I don’t know. That’s why I started the thread. However, whilst anyone can use a face cream or deodorant, whatever the colour of the box, everyone cannot use sanitary pads. They are for women when they are menstruating. Whatever anyone wants to think, it is a fact that women menstruate, and it is a fact that cannot be changed.

Starblaze

Why do I need to answer what makes a woman if I am not the one who is having a problem with trans women?

Explain to me how they aren't a woman in a way that will make me understand and make trans women feel any less like the woman they feel inside*

Also I did mention I would be more comfortable with a move towards seperate cubicles so I'm not sure why you threw that at me suziewoozie

Women can be and have been prosecuted as sexual predators too.

Trans women are biological men, an internal feeling doesn't make a man a woman.
It doesn't matter how much or how little surgery a person has. Human beings cannot change sex.Wearing a dress and high heels doesn't and will never turn a man into a woman.
98% of trans women don't have any surgery at all. Look up AGP Autogynephilia.

Aside from the gender discussion, has anyone had any experience or know anyone who uses these washable pads? My daughter mentioned something similar recently but it was pants with an in built washable pad. She was wondering if they might be good for my 14yr old GD. My concern would be that it surely wouldn’t last a full day at school and then once removed and changed it would need discreetly carried in a school bag to take home. The potential for teenage embarrassment would put me off the idea.