Is it time to rethink Christmas?

We are on the same page- baby first, always, adults adapt.
That is always stated in my posts - pro baby and nuclear family, just in case you are not familiar with my posts.

I was just stating an example of how intransigent family members behave, not what is reasonable.

I'm really glad that we scaled back and simplified the 'festivities' many years ago. There's no pressure to cook elaborate meals or buy expensive presents.

I have a choice of who to visit on the day too - but it does appear compulsory to be the guest of one of my children. There should be choices for those alone who'd prefer company, though - but not just on Christmas day!

Wasteful people have wasteful christmasses. But they also have wasteful birthdays and weekends and Tuesdays.

That made me laugh Notanan Wasteful Mondays as well, I bet!!

Hithere there we differ, like Maw I would put the baby first and adapt round it. This what I mean about just adjusting. Our day has adjusted to meet the needs of others and then moved back wen practical.

We go to church at Christmas (and other times) but which service at what time, who goes etc has been infinitely flexible since DGC, turned up. As they grow older we are all drifting back to the same church, same service, all together. No doubt in a year or two DGC may decide they do not want to come and that may mean that they stay home, that may mean those going to church go at a different time. Little adjustments all the time.

Fortunately there is no-one in the family who is intransigent, but for example, I never invite my sister and her DH. They know they are always welcome, but they are the antithesis of Christmas celebrators, no celebrations, no decorations, no gift giving, so we both happily do things our own way.

MawB

What tablet of stone decreed Christmas dinner must be at 2 o clock?
It was just an example of how tradition run in that fictional family before a change was requested.

What national disaster will occur if another time is chosen?
None, zero, zilch. The world will keep turning and the sun will shine tomorrow.

Were you being serious?
Yes

Maybe with families be scattered far and wide and different age groups this strange Dickension/Victorian/German hybrid we have ended up with isn't working for some people?

Never mind, life goes on.

Plenty of people want to impose their unrealistic expectation on others and are mad when it doesn't happen
Example - Xmas lunch was always at 2pm, why change it to 4 pm
Baby needs a nap, that is why
Well, nothing will happen to baby if there is no nap that day! Don't be unreasonable

Actually a small baby’s routine is rather more important than an adult’s.
What tablet of stone decreed Christmas dinner must be at 2 o clock? What national disaster will occur if another time is chosen?
Were you being serious?

Of course compromise is the answer but there are those who want everyone to dance to their tune and compromise is not part of their vocabulary.

People with this mentality are not willing to give an inch as they look upon having to give in to accommodate others as a sign of defeat.. sad but true.

Well Kalu It’s similar to those who profess everything in their life is wonderful, DH,AC,GC, really!? I don’t buy it for a minute. I must just be one of the very lucky ones. I know it and I count my blessings every day. My dear mum died last year. But Christmas is spent with our 3 generations together and we love the closeness it generates.

I don’t spend silly money (haven’t got so much spare anyway - but state pension is coming this summer for this WASPI woman woohoo!) and I can say hand on heart I haven’t thrown any food out at all. It’s been a restful, gentle Christmas and I am grateful for it.

As for loneliness - it must be very hard to think of others up & down the land in the bosoms of their families if you are on your own. I imagine Sundays throughout the year might generate similar feelings.

The Christmas Juggernaut rolls on and squishes us in its path.

M0nica,

I don't find "wins" aggressive, but realistic.

I am so glad your family adapted and compromised as events take place, that is the ideal outcome.

Some family members are unable to bend their wishes.
Some people insists on celebrating Xmas day on the 25th (person A), no other options. The other person (person B) cannot do that. Person A won't compromise on celebrating Xmas with person B on any other date.
This is an example of whose "traditions or expectations" win. It becomes a power struggle.

Plenty of people want to impose their unrealistic expectation on others and are mad when it doesn't happen.
Example - Xmas lunch was always at 2pm, why change it to 4 pm?
Baby needs a nap, that is why
Well, nothing will happen to baby if there is no nap that day! Don't be unreasonable!

People who are fixated on doing thinks "by the book" 'cause tradition, may "lose" when inlaws and new families join the family... only because of their own inflexibility

What strangely agressive language people use whose tradition wins. Surely families just adjust, expand and contract, change this tradition for that one.

My family have always had very strong clear Christmas tradtions, but when I look back I can actually see how, in fact it has been constantly changing, a slight change here, a bigger change there, then a move back as people have come in and out of the family with deaths and marriages and births, plus friends who we have scooped up when in need, who have then moved on. the strong family tradition is now very different from that I grew up with!

What on earth is wrong with compromise. Every war starts because people refuse to compromise. There are times when being uncompromising is admirable, but in everyday life being uncompromising is a vice not a virtue.

Nobody imposes unrealistic expectations on people, they impose them on themselves. Who among those who speak about advertising leading people to overshop, spend too much, expect to much, ever admits that they are so affected? No, only other people (silly sheep) who aren't as wise/clever as them act like that.

Son/daughter and family - I ate "and family"

Kalu,

You are so right.

The main issue with Christmas and other heavily involved family situations (weddings, new baby, birthdays, special holidays) are the expectations.

Whose "traditions" win? One person's or the family learns to compromise? The latter, while ideal, is not possible, as seen multiple times in this board
Items such as where son/daughter spend Xmas (on their own, with his parents, with her parents, etc), whom travels to whom, who is hosting, what is cooked for the meals, staying in hotel vs relative's home, etc., can become a battle.

If that's the case, what happens? Family conflict and resentment starts.

I personally started enjoying Xmas as soon as I was free from "family expectations" and had a call on how I spent my time.

But, Dinahmo not everyone is having a good time with family and friends if the truth be known. It’s similar to those who profess everything in their life is wonderful, DH,AC,GC, really!? I don’t buy it for a minute.

People who find themselves alone, and I don’t say this lightly, must remember we are all, individually, responsible for our own happiness and contentment be that sharing it with a loved one/ones or not.

I watched my late Mother and aunts deal with widowhood, heartbroken and sad they made a strong effort to get on with their lives, keeping busy and becoming involved in anything which helped them stop feeling lonely. They were an inspiration to me and something I will always remember as I face what could find me in the same position in the not too distant future. Feeling lonely is also possible in a room full of,people.

Life is what you make it and just sometimes it’s a very hard slog.

endlesstrife there have been mid winter festivals which predate Christianity yes I know, but Christians pinched it for themselves, and now it’s CHRISTIAN. I doubt the ancient celebrations had so many pressures attached!

Every historical culture: Christian, Pagan, Celtic, pre celtic, pre-pre celtic or whatever. Each has adopted the winter solstice to its own culture and as far as we can see into the past, the winter solstice has always been one of the great festivals of the year in Europe where the seasonal change is significant.

The great stone circles, their wooden precursors and date back nearly 5,000 years and were built to exactly define solstice dates and act as arenas for rituals. And who knows by how many years before, the solstice was recognised and celebrated with markers or not that left no hole in the ground to draw them to our attention.. Christianity only did what numberless religions and cultures had done before it.

I battle depression on a daily basis. Yes, I'm lonely all the time and this "happy bloody Christmas" lark just doesn't happen for all of us. Long story but I don't see my 2 eldest kids much or my 4 grand kids.

“Enjoy”

Grammaretto I'm not actually saying that we shouldn't celebrate. I don't agree that it is the fear of loneliness - it is the reality of being on one's own when it seems as though everyone around you is having a good time with friends and family.

I like to celebrate, mainly my birthday, because I'm still here despite the aches and pains.

janeainsworth - exactly.
The righteous martyrdom of the Christmas domestic goddess just makes me want to say “Stop! Nobody is making you do that! “
Nobody can make you feel a failure or as Eleanor Roosevelt said Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent
We no longer observe the expectations of others in other respects, as women we pride ourselves on our independence - so by all means, rethink your Christmas, Easter, Bank Holidays, birthdays and have the courage to stand by your convictions.
Alternatively, do the traditional thing because you e joy it.

I think I understand what is being implied here. IF somebody feels lonely at Christmas what do they feel the other 364 days of the year? Christmas day is ONE day. Do they feel sadder on 25 December than they do the rest of year? So, is it just the 'hype' about Christmas that makes them sadder?

I think Christmas is probably the one time where there ARE lots of options for people who find themselves alone - if they want to get involved. Many people go out of their way at Christmas to provide fun things...churches/clubs/help the aged/Salvation Army for example February might be a different kettle of fish!

Life is what you make it....including Christmas! Personally I love the religious aspect of it all. So visiting a carol service at as many churches as I can is wonderful for me.

janeainsworth For some people it's very difficult to pluck up the courage to meet new people or to do things differently.

When I first started going up to London with school friends we decided to go to a pub with live music. As we stood outside trying to pluck up the courage to go in some other people entered, looking at us in passing. I decided that I was not going to look like a silly school girl and went in. The others followed close behind. Not everybody is like me (thank goodness). Since that evening I've never had a problem with going somewhere on my own - once went to an all nighter of Busby Berkeley films at the NFT. I'm not bothered by what other people think of me and am a confident person.

Not everyone is confident and they're the people that I'm thinking about.

Isn't it also the fear of loneliness rather than the reality?
I admit to never having been alone at Christmas and when we were children someone who was alone was always invited to join us.
What else would there be to cheer up the dark days of winter be you religious or not?
I'm a believer in keeping what we have unless you have a better alternative.

Inkycog The outpouring is coming from some people who are very lonely at Christmas, not from those who suddenly feel sorry for them. It seems to me that a large proportion of the threads in the sections concerning families come from lonely people. They may have children, or grandchildren or siblings but they don't see that much of them and they are lonely.