What do you think

Coolgran,
We all think we can judge character which we do by past behavior but we cannot predict the future, couples in particular are impossible. In my extended family there have been several divorces of couples that we thought were a good match, conversely others have stayed together when nobody thought it would last.
A lot of us Grand parents have cash to spare ( I don't) giving or loaning money to a young couple can unbalance their relationship, giving cash to a daughter might make a man feel inferior, there is no easy option.

I think that you don't lend money unless you are prepared for it not to be paid back (i.e. a gift), unless legal forms are signed. My daughter has, bless her, a spread sheet of all the money that I have provided. I never expected it to be paid back and, if they tried, it would take long after I would be dead.

If it's all about character judgement then, even if you did press for the money and were successful in getting it back, it wouldn't make up for that person not being who you thought.

The money isn't the important part though of course not irrelevant.
It's about doubting my/our ability to judge character.
One thing is for sure, it'll be a cold day in hell before it will happen again.

Okay, I know the way to go. Store it away and file it in the 'down to experience folder'.

We gave DD and SIL a substantial sum of money, allowing them to buy a bigger house without adding too much to their mortgage. Unfortunately, I realised, through not having to sign that above mentioned document, that the money probably used for the intended purpose. It presumably gave them a safety net, but I was angry. That sum will not be 'recovered ' if the house is sold. I asked my solicitor if I could ask SIL to sign a document stating that if they were to part and sell the house, he would give DD 'that sum' before they split the remainder of the sale money. He said that could be done, but he couldn't be 'held' to it. We would have to rely on his goodwill!

I agree with your husband. Let it go. Money is not worth the anguish that it causes. Personally, I wouldn't have given it in the first place. I'm a great believer in letting children stand on their own two feet. If they couldn't afford the deposit then they move into rental. Owning a property doesn't make people any happier, as your son and wife have proved and it's certainly made you unhappy. I do agree with other people morally it should be returned, seems where money is concerned some people have no morals.

Coolgran65, it may be disheartening that the trust in your in-law has been broken, but try to look on the positive side that your offspring is happy to give the deposit back.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
I feel for those who are or have been in the same position.
Thank you to those of you who understand.

To those who disagree with my outlook, I appreciate your opinions and comments.

In summary - We were asked to help with a loan and yes, the mortgage company required It to be a gift. So we without hesitation signed the document. We were naive to have placed our trust.
A lesson learned.

Thank you all again.

You signed a legal document saying it was a gift. Morally you think the money is yours, legally it is not. You should have signed that it was a gift to your offspring ( as opposed to the coupe ) and it could then have been ring fenced in case of future problems.
My daughter borrowed money for a deposit for a house with then partner which she paid back over time. They split later and she got the deposit back plus a fair share of the profits. She still has that money for a future deposit. There was nothing in writing but her ex accepted that the money belonged to her even though as he was the bigger earner he paid the lion's share of the mortgage.

You can't cherry pick morality to suit. It's black or white, not 5O shades of grey.

I hadn't looked at it like that but, yes, that's a very valid point. After all, the Mortgage company might well not have lent the money or as much if you had said it was a loan.

We are in this position. On separation it was agreed by son and Ddil that they would refund deposit to us but once their home sold she took her half of the equity and told our son she was not repaying us. It was a slap in the face. What goes around, comes around. I hope she feels good about her behaviour.

I never lend money or underwrite anything, for anyone. It leads to 90% and only 10% of the time.

Marilii

I suggest that the OP wasn't 'forced' to sign anything. She chose to sign, knowing full well the Ts &Cs.
The mortgage company (and the underwriters) would view borrowed money as a debt and that would colour their decision when it came to offering a mortgage which, in all probability, would not have been on the table.

Morality plays little part in today's society.
You signed the mortgage papers saying it was a gift. Was that morally right, if indeed it was, in your eyes, borrowed money?
You can't cherry pick morality to suit. It's black or white, not 5O shades of grey.

Everyone is calling this a gift. It really wasn't. The mortgage company forced you to sign a doc stating that it was a gift, for whatever advantage that gave to the mortgage company. You had no choice but to sign it the way it was written if you wanted to help your child, even though everyone in the room knew it really was a loan and was expected to be repaid down the road. Since this "gift" thing seems to be standard procedure for mortgage companies in your area, I am wondering if it's possible to take the ex to court if you can produce witnesses that this was truly a loan. I'd talk with an attorney. Most will give you a free, initial session so they can appraise the situation to see if it's worth their time to take on your case. Next time, if possible, cross out the word "gift" and write in "loan" and initial the change. They say Justice is blind, but in your case she appears to be deaf and just plain wrong, too.

I have a different view you legally gave the money as a gift if you were expecting to have the money returned then you should not have gifted it. For your own peace of mind chalk it up to experience and never give such a gift again you won't then be disappointed that others don't share your moral values with regard to money .

Well at least you still have a relationship with your child, which is the most important thing.

My daughter is semi-estranged from all of the family, after I refused to go through with a loan to buy a house with her boyfriend, as I thought he was controlling. It was money from my pension, which I had already got out in preparation, but he began to show a side to him which I hadn't seen before, also he didn't want a survey or searches carried out and was not at all keen on a Deed of Trust.

This has caused me so much heartache that sometimes I just wish I had lost the money, although it was never about the money, more about not wanting my daughter to be tied to an abusive partner.

I was in this situation once but without the piece of paper stating it was a gift. Personally I felt morally it should go back to the person who gifted to me but they were happy for me to keep it. If I gave anything to my kids, it would be on the understanding that they repaid the money on the sale of the house but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

You and your AC have the moral high ground but isn't it always thus. I remember my DM sold her house to my DSibling at a reduced cost on (verbal) condition that when it was time to sell again my DM would retrieve some of the difference, if you follow!! However my DSibling decided to pass on the goodwill by selling it to a friend of theirs at the cheap rate.
My DM was pretty annoyed at the time.
Neither a borrower or a lender be.
Never do good at another's expense. Etc

quite right jane ainsworth - my mistake - sorry.

Doversole You're making a bit of an assumption there.
CG hasn't specified the sex of the partner or indeed her offspring.

You gave the money as a gift, and clearly you know that legally you have no entitlement to it now.

But DD's ex-partner's moral compass seems broken if he is wanting to snaffle half of it. Wouldn't have thought there is anything you can do about it except appeal to his better nature.

As you signed up to it being a gift the couple may regard it as theirs and you gave up all your rights to have it returned.
It's hard to say whether it should be returned on "moral" grounds as one person's morality may be different to another's.
We've given engagement presents and when the engagement was broken off, some people returned the gift and others didn't.
The lesson is to add a condition that the gift is returned if the property is sold due to the recipients breaking up. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

A gift is a gift so really it is not yours any more. They probably feel that it is theirs by right, unless you specified otherwise at the time. I would never give money away with strings attached. Once it's gone, its gone. If you wanted to keep control they you could have advised at the time and put notice with Land Registry. Your decision, but I think your DH is right and leave it.

So difficult - it's likely this has to be signed over as a 'gift' for dear HMRC and morals don't count for much these days. It just shows how careful we have to be. I hope the ex can sleep well at night!