Gone off in a huff

Jalima1108 yes, the theory is little children are in more danger of stepping on a spider or snake so have instinctive fear of them. I would say that in children a fear of something noisy and jumping about as if to leap on you, or fear of a big furry animal especially if you see its teeth, would have an instinctive reaction in children and remain in some adults too.

Many of my friends just do not know much about dogs and my dogs are rescued so have some difficulties, such as fear having been treated cruelly. I simply shut them away from visitors. If a visitor likes dogs and wants to see them I usually bring them out to say hello but I still take them to their beds in another room because with their background they are a bit daft.
One man from Trading Standards, was an exception, he visited many farms and took special (posh!) dog treats for the farmers' big dogs! He said leave the dogs to him and he had them all quietly eating out of his hand and the little girl who had been treated cruelly by a man and was terrified of men actually slept on his lap! They are amazing animals. BUT I never force them on other people! The absolute opposite!

Also some of my friends think dogs are dirty. It's not their fault, they were taught this. If a dog is properly cared for with all vaccinations and more importantly regularly flea and worm prevention treated, then you are at a lot lower risk of catching anything from that dog than you are from its human owner.

So glad you agree about systematic desensitisation. It's probably the only way.

Oh - I used to muzzle my previous two miniature poodles as well! Reason? To stop them licking all the children who kept patting them! Also prevented people giving them unsuitable treats! My current very small rescued dogs hardly go out as I have a big garden. Only the two very calm ones do. Because they are small they attract a lot of oohs and aaahs, but if someone is nervous I just pick them up and move them out of the way. (The dogs not the people!)

I would say to any parent that, if you possibly can, do introduce your children to animals. If possible let them have a pet when they are about 8. There are so many advantages to a child having a pet I can't list them here. I grew up on a farm -lucky me- and although scared to death of one of the dogs when I was small, I adored all the animals, even the snotty nosed cows!
Gotta go, bye for now!

I really do have to point out that MawBroon never said anything about not being allowed to post on GN if you weren’t a gran. She said

“Oops, sorry, silly me.
Why on earth should I think someone posting on Gransnet might be a gran? confused.”

Surely you can read in that post that she’d simply made an assumption until informed otherwise.

Can’t say I’m impressed with the way a certain person has stoked up bad feeling and misinformation about this.

Luzdoh, there are no longer psychiatric departments. People are referred to Community Mental Health Teams. As you say, this is the remit of Clinical Psychology. Some CPs (including myself) sometimes use clinical hypnosis as part of a treatment plan. Psychologists and for that matter Psychiatrists, have used hypnosis effectively and ethically since long before it was used by people taking a course only in that, or indeed stage hypnotists.

Caledonai14 I knew you were lovely when I read your other replies! I love What you have said. I am hoping there would be a huge walk-out in solidarity if anyone were told they had to leave on the grounds of having no GC.
A "Gran" and a "Nan" is always used as a reference to someone around 60+ isn't it? I was in a taxi in Paris and the driver was on his mobile phone saying in French, "It's ok darling It's only an old Granny, she won't understand French - anyway probably she can't hear" . So that's what we get called, well, in Paris. By young Taxi drivers!

I don't think they can exclude you or would want to actually.

However, I have noticed how the same people regularly reply here with confrontational and quite disrespectful words. I mentioned my Psych friends' research into Social Media earlier. They have found some rather disconcerting results. They are putting through analysis the frequent users at the moment and analysing their types of reply. I asked them to include GN and they already had.
The data is so vast it might take a year longer before they publish it.

True, fear of spiders seems to be inherent . The many replies show how fear of dogs was learned and is not inherent, and that is very interesting
That is interesting Alexa

I understand that fear of snakes is inherent too - I wonder if these fears are passed down through generations for very real reasons?

One of my DGC was knocked over by a dog when she was very small - the dog was not vicious but over-friendly; however she remains nervous and very cautious but thankfully does not seem to have developed a phobia.

I saw two dogs out for a walk on leads today, both muzzled, which I think is a good idea if there is even the slightest doubt about a dog.

Desensitisation therapy rather than hypnotherapy would seem to be the best way forward minxie because this could restrict your life.

luzdoh as a psychologist, albeit retired, I’m sure you know that SHOUTING is counterproductive and never solved anything. It surely isn’t necessary to get your point over?

Hi DanniRae,
I, too, would have to stop coming here if it is only for grandparents and I'm fairly sure I read, on joining, that you don't have to be. Very glad you made the point, though (and I understand why you did - well said). I am a pretendy junior (but nonetheless very useful) grannie to step grandchildren so don't ever give up hope because love comes to you in strange ways when you least expect it. However, this site has already proved valuable to me in so many ways and I hope maybe to meet up with some gransnetters in future. It has been very interesting to see all the comments here and I know - on line - people sometimes say things they would not say to the face of a friend in need. I still think it took great courage to post such a personal predicament and I am glad that people like you and Luzdoh (and many others posting earlier) are paying attention and reminding us, however gently, to play nice.

Lilyflower Exactly! Well said! Or fear of flying? not uncommon. I have a friend in the USA but she can't fly here to see me. Do I complain? No! I understand!

We thought this post was a bit OTT so have removed. As a reminder, absolutely anyone is able to post on Gransnet whether or not you have kids, grandkids, poodles or parakeets.

A phobia is not a rational fear and people should not be so dismissive of them. Additionallly, dog lovers are blind about their pooches. They need to think about visiting someone with a giant spider, snake or - insert phobia here - before they advise you to take a compromise (dog in cage) seriously.

I know what I would be thinking and feeling if someone said, 'It'll be OK, we'll put the tarantula in a cage for the day.'

merlotgran Thanks Merlotgran! I was writing at a terribly late hour last night so if I mistook Merlotgran for Merlot you know I wasn't telling anyone to avoid you! You're a good sport to make it a joke, thanks so much!

i didn't go to sleep till well after 4am. I'm working on something about Personality Disorders to put in the public Social Media. We're really concerned about the way these self-styled "therapists" talk about sufferers. Obviously there are really good people doing a wonderful job too, but these men - yes haven't seen a bad woman doing it yet - are so cruel and selfish. So I was working late.
yawn zzzzzzzz
whoops sorry!
thanks so much again! L

DanniRae Hi there! Forgive if this is short am under pressure at mo.
Phobias are one of things amateur hypno"therapists" say they treat. I did a study on what goes on with these self-styled groups who make up their own qualifications, and went under-cover on some courses they run. I was horror stricken as they do not have medical knowledge and the learners - usually lovely people although some were terrible characters - were being fed myths about hypnosis and false information about just about everything medical and not medical. There are those who align their ideas to NLP which has a question mark over it in Clinical Psychology. Plus others with all sorts of ideas and one who thinks Freud is God - steer clear of that, and does cruel routines to people without knowing them or finding out if they have an underlying vulnerability such as a mental illness, abuse victim or even abuser, which could make what she does to them turn them extremely ill and unable to be responsible for what they did.

For a real phobia, which is pervasive in almost all aspects of life or has made a person change their life to avoid the object of phobia, you are really well advised to go to your GP and ask to be referred to a Psychiatrist who will decide your therapy which almost always is with a Clinical Psychologist who will do 'systematic desensitisation"
Supposing a fear of mice was always in your mind so that you were hyper vigilant for them and scared all the time in case one should suddenly appear, that = a phobia.
Fist I think you might be encouraged to simply talk about mice, to say the dreaded mouse word (unless you were already ok with that).
Next pictures of mice or maybe just one picture, would be shown you in a nice safe place with the therapist for a brief time. The time you were exposed to the picture would lengthen until you were able to look at it comfortably without palpitations, feeling sick etc. Eventually you would be able to touch the picture.
You might be asked to put a picture up where you could see it at home.
Then more pictures would be shown or pics of lots of mice
Then not very nice looking wild mice...
Slowly you would work towards being able to be in a room with a tame cute little mouse in a cage, just for a brief time. Then longer.. etc...
and one day you could touch the little mouse just briefly. And so on...

Sometimes at the beginning, the therapist will teach you relaxation. I am very in favour of this. I do systematic whole body relaxation, staring with the left foot, right foot, left ankle etc, you squeeze them up and let them drop and enjoy that lovely heavy feeling. Your breathing gets deeper etc. If you can help the person to relax with a good relaxation tape, not some weird thing that starts talking about floating away to your safe place though. Make sure they learn to relax and enjoy that relaxed feeling. It's ok to add that they are feeling safe.

I do hope your GP can help. Please be careful of these self-styled hypno-therapists. However nice they are and most are very well meaning, they do not understand what they are doing. I trained under Michael Yapko quite a long time ago*. He is a Clinical Psychologist. But I never hypnotise people.
8you can google him or find his books
Crumbs sorry gotta go
Wishing you a very good outcome with the phobia situation and good health and happiness, L

ps i'll try and seek out some self help books. NHS waiting times and all that......
take care try not to worry Lx

Thuberon, do all phobic persons feel virtuous when they express their phobic feelings by striving to limit the activities of people who don't have phobias?

Steer clear of the Merlot

I couldn't have put it better myself.

MawBroon are you saying that everyone posting on GransNet should be a Gran? - because I have always thought it's ok to post on here even if you don't have grandchildren (or children actually).
Please make it clear because if you have to be a gran I will stop coming on here - I will be sad if that is the case because I would absolutely LOVE to be a gran but it just hasn't happened yet (I live in hope).
Hi luzdoh very interested in your information about treatment from a hypnotist - would it be possible to tell me how do find a suitable one for phobias? Thank you!

Sorry Minxie I have to suggest you change your thought process to make this a happier occasion.

What we think about is what we go towards. Tortuous hours they will be if that is the thought in your mind.

I think you will need to say to yourself I will enjoy the 2 hours with my DH and his family. Relaxing exercises in the car going, big smile when you get there.

If they break their promise leave. Your DH can't complain if you ave given it your best effort. Go with a miserable face and a negative attitude he can.

Good luck.

Oh luzdoh I think the reference was a reply to Merlotgran rather than to

I don’t go to parks. I don’t have grandchildren and my Mil is not elderly or infirm. Quite the opposite and again I’m not being silly

Oops, sorry, silly me.
Why on earth should I think someone posting on Gransnet might be a gran? .

minxie I've had a read, and got a bit upset by some replies but learned a couple of things.

You've tried looking at the greyhound through glass and managed it. That's great!! Good for you. Keep remembering that and knowing that you did it, you can do it, it's ok!

Steer clear of the Merlot and the hypno"therapy" BUT relaxation with positive phrases is great! Such as I can be in a house where there is a dog. I am breathing steadily etc.

i have to go as it's past my morphine time (true not joking)
lastly - you said it's going to be 2 hours and you could do that. BRILLIANT! Well done! Two hours will be quick and my dogs stay in one place sleeping far longer than that so the greyhound (I had one - they are lazy) will be absolutely FINE in his cage/kennel. Look - forget this cage word, it's emotive, to the dog it's just another bed! Probably one where he gets given a treat (CORR good stuff he thinks). Actually the idea of taking a treat for him is a good one. Greyhounds are fussy though. I'd buy dentastix (good for his teeth) only available in packs of 7. I've never known a dog refuse one or any of the similar treats by same maker. Forgotten which...
i really must go
I promise to think of you and say a little prayer. Will you let us know how it went please? lots of love L

Caledonai14 WELL SAID!!! A phobia is a serious health problem and no different from an allergy in the way we should regard the sufferer.
I have written a long reply (if you have the patience to read it!) but I really am glad you wrote what you did. I get very upset by people's cruelty and condemnation of sufferers of phobias or any kind of mental pain for that matter. I am currently up late making a YouTube video to counteract some horrific (all male!) so-called "therapists" who have put videos about recovery for victims of narcissism but swayed into talking about Borderline Personality Disorder. These self-centred egotists (one especially), calling the sufferers "they" throughout, denigrate them, swear about them, say run away from them, and many hateful things about how evil they are. I am appalled! It's such a painful disorder to have! People diagnosed with it have actually written under his video that they were doing well but now think they'd be better off dead! So I'm making my response. It's not terribly beautifully filmed because I can't do that. But then all one of them does is sit in front of his computer and make up whatever he feels like saying - no preparation at all, no visual aids or references etc. he even eats in front of the camera. All I can do is convert Powerpoint to a YouTube and add some talking! But I want people to know the truth and know there is hope!

Back to dog phobias etc. I LOVE dogs, none the less, I never expect other people to love them! If someone is nervous I just keep them (the dogs!) away.

I have 5 dogs but I put them in my bedroom (yes! small house, big old cover on bed first though!) when dog-fearing friend comes because it's a room well away from her.

Last word to any sneerers from your retired psychologist;
Phobias are not any fun. They go around with the person all the time. It's a misery for them. If anyone is going to take the micky or be silly about this, SEE ME first!

correction line 15; "if their dog were out of sight"

sorry! I did re read thrice!!

minxie I'm writing without reading other replies - deliberately, sorry if that's daft. Reason - people do not really understand what "phobia" actually means. You really do have a clinical phobia don't you? You have some signs even in your sort description.
I would like to encourage you to go because it would be so nice if your family were together. That's why everyone is saying "go".
But I'm a retired psychologist and I know this may just not be the right thing for you. Would your symptoms be very bad if you knew the dog was in another room, out of sight and could not get any where near you?
Do you feel confident enough to explain this is actually an illness and you can't help it, but you really appreciate their trying to help by putting their dog in a cage. By the way, I have 5 (very small) rescued dogs so I feel confident about talking about the dog's welfare. The dog would be ok in a big enough cage just for part of one day. I have previously put mine in my bedroom to make sure a phobic friend could feel comfortable in my house. All they do is go to sleep!
If their were dog out of sight would it help? Have you tried asking if that is possible? Or is the knowledge that it is there still too much?
As for your health, I would like you to go to your GP - see someone you like - and explain that this isn't a bit of a nervous fear but a real phobia, and ask for a referral to a psychiatry dept. A Clinical Psychologist would perhaps do systematic desensitisation with you.
You will have heard a lot about "hypnotherapy". Steer clear of it! There are thousands of amateurs who have been to a tin-pot course with hatched up "qualifications" invented by the people/person running the course (and fleecing them). You will know them because they will tell you "you won't do anything under hypnosis which is against your beliefs/principles or wishes" or words to that effect. They are wrong, that is not true. It's not why you should not go exactly. It is just that they do not know what they are doing and you need proper help in a medical environment not someone's sitting room where they are picking up a bit of cash telling you you are so relaxed. You should never let anyone hypnotise you who is not a health practitioner or working under the auspices of one and insured by them.

There is hope! It is curable! But perhaps not by next week.
So, open your heart, tell everyone it really is a serious phobia and if you want to, you will try hard if they could arrange that you do not see their dog. If that is what would work for you. If you are going to have palpitations all day because the dog is in the house, then politely explain you can't manage it. Don't try to explain the origins of your phobia, it's not necessary and not required!!
I don't suppose their dog could go for a day with a neighbour could he? A friend of their children? Dogs survive a few hours in a different place just occasionally so long as they have water and perhaps a nice treat. I would take mine to where they go when I am away if it were me. (I.e. kennels although run by dear friends, but I pay them.)

If you can't make it, remember, it's not your fault. We all have health problems. I have horrendous migraines and I never know when I'll get one and have to miss an event. So if your phobia keeps you away, you must NOT reproach yourself. Please ask your husband to read this.
I do so hope your Doctor finds you a good department with good Psychologists to help. The ones I knew were lovely people!
Good luck and I will be thinking of you.

take it like a Nan?

MawBroon -
I think it is really a bit silly to have reached the years of discretion and claim to be afraid of dogs.

Are you telling minxie she ought to Nan up?

Caledonail I don’t think that is correct. Many who post asking for ‘advice’ are simply looking for people to side with them. I’m not saying this is always the case, but very often it doesn’t do to feed their belief that they are right and the other party is in the wrong.

Occasionally you get a poster who listens to what others are saying and changes their perspective, but it’s rare. It’s often tough to listen to the advice given if it isn’t what they wanted to hear. If you ask for advice then that’s what you’ll get - not necessarily support.