Charlie Gard

I strongly agree with luckygirl, what the parents most need now is someone with training and extensive experience to help them through this situation now; it can't be expected, obviously, that they can think reasonably, and they are in huge need of compassion and support - and privacy to deal with Charlie's final moments.

But we have to accept they have only had a few days, until this week they had such hope , we have known for weeks he cannot live, they didn't . He didn't seem distressed on the picnic on the roof , if he is brain dead he will not know fear, distress if moved , so what trauma ? Can a brain dead person feel anything? If he will experience trauma he is not brain dead surely?

Tony Bland who was serverely injured at Hillsborough was kept alive for four years even though in a coma and no hope of recovery

Annie I may be wrong, but I think that was a rather different situation: people have been known to come out of comas after years, so unless it was clear that he would never have any brain function, I can relate much more to his parent's wishing to keep him alive.

He suffered severe brain damage devongirl. ,

Yes Annie, sorry, you're right.

No apology needed, I remember the film shots of the poor boy in hospital and the discussions on right to die.

I feel the same, tegan2. Good post.

If the baby can feel physical distress he can feel other physical feelings, the touch of his parents for example and comfort from this ?

I am not, as claimed by annsixty playing devils advocate, I cannot agree with the majority here that common sense and logical thinking works when grief is raw.

This couple are suffering , they are fearful, angry, in deep despair , such a dark place, they are suffering the dark night of the soul. Please stop condemning them for not thinking clearly , the awful thing is - they think they are , I ache for them

I think everybody aches for them. Thinking they've gone about things in what is perhaps the wrong way is not condemnation. It's saying that it would appear to have made it all even harder for them.

I agree, which is why they should have a trained and experienced counsellor with them now..

Quite so Baggs

They are fearful. They are defined now as Charlie's parents. When he dies they will no longer know who they are, they have lived that role for 11 months. They have forgotten what normal life is. They will struggle long and hard to retain one.

That should have been regain one.

Anniebach I totally agreee with you ,all the remarks about the "cost" to the NHS, the failure to see these parents are on the last leg of a journey and they NEED to complete it their way.I too sat with my mother as she died in hospital...with just a curtain sheilding us from the eyes of the other women in the ward and visitors coming and going and it wasn't pleasant,we would much have preffered a hospice for her and my sister and I .It wasn't pleasant for those others in the ward either .I'm glad others haven't had dead babies taken from them before they were ready to let go but I have ,as have you and I know how it feels .These parents are grieving now and it will be worse much worse when their baby has finally gone.There is no worse feeling than the emptiness left after a baby dies ,when you have to walk out the doors with empy arms and leave all your hopes and dreams for that little life behind .I would happily give this young couple everything they ask if it makes it even a fraction easier .

The deadline for a decision on his end-of-life care has now passed

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40740693

don't know if this means his life support will be stopped very soon after arrival at the hospice?

Paddyann x

I think devongirl, it means the judge will step in and take the decision for them. That was my understanding when I heard the round up of events from the court last night. So, if they have been unable to get a specialist, then I expect he will make an order that the child is removed to the hospice and all artificial aids withdrawn. Drugs will be administered to make sure he feels no pain.

I heard on BBC4 this AM, that [now after time ,13.36, for the judgement] the parents , if he goes to a hospice, and has specialised care, the parents are going to bill the NHS, the cost paid by them.

Something quite wrong there, sadly

Poor little lad

jollyg have I understood you to mean the parents age asking the NHS to pay the hospice bill?

What I heard about finances on R4 this morning was the parents would pay for private doctors & nurses, presumably from the charity fund, then bill the NHS as they feel it had let down their son.

Oh fgs, that is terrible!! after all the devoted care from GOSH!

They are very distressed and perhaps not thinking rationally at the moment.

Melanie Philips on where the real guilt of this case lies. Very good article.

Baggs, is that article in The Times?

A very powerful article and I agree with what Melanie Phillips has said.