Charlie Gard

I fail to see why Charlie needs to go into a hospice. All his needs have been met by GOSH and his parents are now coming to terms with the sad fact that they have to let him go. Why not let him slip away without all the upheaval?

What about the parents of other desperately ill children in whichever hospice agrees to take him? Their sorrow will be compounded by the media intrusion.

Sorry, I just don't get it.

I've come to this discussion late. For fear of being taken to task most people are wary of saying what they really think. IMO it's a matter of control.

Reading between the lines the judge would not wish to set a precedent, if the parents wishes were granted it would open the floodgates for unrealistic demands from other parents.

So agree Merlotgran why move him at all And that's what I was meaning Lillie why does he have to be moved to a hospice he has everything he needs why the whole disruption to his poor little body Let him go where he is and where he has been most of his life
I now think the parents are just digging their heels in with their demands almost like punishment everyone is bending over backwards to help the little one and I think they need to look beyond being the 'wronged' parents and see how much help surport and empathy they have been given

TerriBull it matters to THEM where they spend his last hours....as it does to all the people who go to hospices at the end of their lives .THATS whay hospices are there isn't it Where do you want to die? In a safe environement with your loved ones around you or in a hospital ward with bleeping machinery all around and other peoples families witnessing it.TRY to put yourself in their shoes .I've had friends who chose the hospice route and it makes it a much better end for them and their families

There seems to an idea that when the life support machine is turned off he will gently fade away. When the machine is turned off he will be dead. Instantly. No last few breaths, no last few minutes. His own heart does not beat, he cannot draw even one fleeting breath. Only the machine gives him a semblance of life. It seems they are planning to keep him like this as long as they can. It begins to border on the macabre. I don't know how anyone can help them.

BB ... I see what you mean and do agree, just thinking about the logistics is unbearable.

Paddyann I m absolutely sure Charlie would be in a very safe and quiet environment at the hospital I doubt if he is in a main ward with people running around Hospices are there to make the last months, weeks or days or someone's life as pleasant as possible as Eglantine has pointed out the babe is already brain dead he has no life I am darned sure the hospital would make the ending every bit as peaceful as possible for the parents and Charlie
They have lived through a totally out of control scenario they want to grab what control they can but it is getting beyond that now it's becoming a fight
When my mum who was in hospital was given a short time to live we were wheeled into a side room I was given an easy chair and a pillow and blanket I was brought tea and offered porridge ( it was early morning ) i sat quietly with her holding her hand to the end, the staff even told me if she lasted another night they would bring me a fold up bed to have alongside her bed I couldn't have asked for more and I m sure GOSH would bend over backwards to accommodate the parents need for a quiet end

Bluebell, you know or you think that is how his death and his parents grief will be dealt with? Have you had a baby die there?

That's not a very nice thing to say, Anniebach.

Yeah Paddyann I do know the purpose of a hospice, I support my local childrens' hospice and my brother died in one I don't think I need the emphasis of your patronising capital letters to point out their purpose. If Charlie is moved, his beeping machinery presumably will have to accompany him and it's the logistics I was questioning. The parents seem now quite dogged in their determination to persue their wishes over the advice of the doctors.

I suppose the parents have been encouraged to turn into 'slebs' by the media and the 'Charlies army' lot and feel quite right to continue to be demanding of what now seem quite inappropriate concessions and consideration.
How must other parents feel seeing all this? Where else could the money GOSH was forced to spend on the legal case have been spent? How many other families suffered as a result of this?
I was sorry for the parents but now I'm sorrier for poor long lost Charlie and all the others affected by this long drawn out affair. I'm being polite BTW.

Some horrible comments on here. I'm shocked by the lack of empathy some posters show for these parents.

I don't understand your angry post AB no I haven't had a baby die there but I m not sure how that is relevant I have no reason to imagine any hospital especially one in the middle of a media circus would not bend over backwards to make Charlie's end comfortable and peaceful for him and his parents
Why would you think the opposite ?

Most of us are showing enormous empathy even whilst not agreeing with the way the parents are now dealing with their situation.
They are not accepting the inevitable and some of us feel, rightly or wrongly, that the longer it goes on , the harder it will be.

pursue

Unless you have held your dead baby Bluebell and wanted to hold onto the little body even though you know you have to let go and know the emptiness of the empty arms as the little body is taken out of the room then you will never know the relevance of my question.

Given the media circus that surrounds this tragic case I would also question, as others have said, how moving Charlie to a hospice will affect those already at that hospice who won't have long left either and their relatives. Where Charlie goes the media will follow, and possibly CA. Of course the parents last moments with their dear baby are going to be heartbreaking for them, but the poor little boy is effectively dead already.

But he is not dead to his parents , this you just do not understand Terri , he is not stiff and cold and blue , you see a corpse they do not.

With respect annsixty I think empathy includes the understanding that there is no right or wrong way to do things. There is only the way that individual can do things. And even two people in exactly the same situation will handle things differently. I don't feel any of us can judge them for anything they have done.

I wasn't singling out your earlier posts or anyone else's for that matter in my previous post.

I understand what you are saying Annie I hope their last moments with him are as private and peaceful as can be. I just feel that moving him to a hospice might affect the peace of those aleady and their loved ones who will have to face the same scenario.

already there.

Terri, these parents have clung to hope for nearly a year, only this week has that hope been taken from them , just a few days . When your are grief stricken your thinking may not be logical to others who have not buried their baby. There is no correct/polite/considerate way to grieve , you just stumble through it .

I agree Annie, logic can go out the window, hence the term "mad with grief" is very real and we all deal with death differently I know from my husband who lost a grown up son a few years ago, it never goes away, but one has to learn to come to terms with it

Every time I feel sadness and smpathy for the parents [before I was born my mum gave birth to a little boy who lived for a short while and my dad wouldn't let anyone take the body away; she'd had numerous miscarriages and stillbirths prior to that..I don't think either of them ever got over it]I also feel that they are behaving as if they are the only people ever to go through this sadness and they are making it far more difficult for people with sick children at the hospital and now at the hospice. There are also parents going through similar things that are still having to hold down a normal life eg work etc. The whole thing has taken on a life of it's own and the parents are feeding off it in some way. I'm not blaming them for this as I don't know what I would do in such circumstances. But I do know of a family who were offered media support [because the media do go out of their way to find stories like this] but turned it down because they wanted to deal with it privately.This doesn't mean I don't sympathise with Charlies parents. It's just that that sympathy now encompasses a wider picture. It's almost as if it's now like a storyline in a soap and people are getting enjoyment from their involvement with it [I don't watch soaps but they do seem to involve an awful lot of tragedy these days that people appear to enjoy; ditto hospital programmes that I don't watch..other than One Born Every Minute and 24 Hours in A&E that I only watch when channel hopping]

I am sure you are right annie in saying that to the parents this baby is not dead - I know you have personal experience of similar sad situations, and will know much better than many of us, who thankfully have not suffered in this way.

The parents do indeed need time to come to terms with their decision; but there has to be a moment when the decision is made to let him die - the longer it drags on, the more they will continue to bond with him and the more difficult the grieving process will be. Their emptiness when Charlie is gone will be compounded by a huge change in their life and status in relation to the media, which has filled a big chunk of their lives over the last few months. One cannot but fear for their long-term well-being, and, as I mentioned upthread, they need a counsellor beside them, both now and in the future.

I have seen situations professionally when young adults were saved following an accident, but later found to be brain dead and difficult decisions had to be taken. Unimaginably sad for them all, but I never came across parents who did not accept the prognosis and take the brave decisions needed.

I understand the parents' wish to see Charlie moved from the hospital to hospice care, because their relationship with the staff there has broken down. But that would satisfy a need for them, rather than necessarily being the best thing for Charlie, who will have to suffer the disruption and possible physical distress without any benefit from being elsewhere, as he is insufficiently conscious for it to make any difference to him.

This case does highlight the challenges of modern medicine. Charlie would have peacefully slipped away long ago before medical advances made it possible to keep his body alive with no hint of meaningful human life.