Hungry Britain

Reading some of the above I am wondering if only those of a certain level of intellectual ability and attainment who are able to earn a good income should be allowed to breed and the rest compulsorily sterilized.

Oh, I forgot, didn't a few countries (USA, Sweden etc) try that years ago? Isn't it called eugenics?

and that is where discussions become just ridiculous. As you know full well this was NEVER suggested here- was it???

But yes, I do expect people to consider how well they are able to look after their children, and how many- as well as possible, before, as you say 'breed'. You see, I'd hope, foolishly, that humans would do more than breed- but actually take responsibility (in fact, most animals do).

It was actually meant to be sarcastic not literal, granjura? Some posts seem to have been getting towards that idea, or at least some people seemed to be thinking they were. I thought it could bring it to a full stop and back on track.

You absolutely shouldn't have felt an "ouch" Galen of course you have worked hard and qualified and quite frankly where would we be without "you" and your profession? The point I was trying (badly) to make is that we can't all be doctors, dentists, solicitors etc. it takes all sorts to make a community and my son (as a qualified electrician) has worked bloody hard believe you me. He did not do well at school and has had some challenging times in his life but is he not valuable too? I am sorry that I may not be quite as articulate as some posters but I was quite hurt by some remarks that came across as though you should only have children if daddy earns enough for mummy to stay at home.

Where would we be without a huge range of professions, trades and those hard workers who have absolutely no qualifications but the ability to do their job well . All essential or else society grinds to a halt. All valuable, all have their place.

And politicians? Could we manage without them?

Exactly rosequartz after all the most brilliant of doctors, mathematicians or barristers would still need a lowly plumber to unblock their drain

[Smile] gillybob

I meant

Plumbers and roofers, etc., get paid quite well. It was the carer in Newcastle that I felt most sorry for.
There was a thread earlier about how much you paid for a plumber. About £90 average to service a boiler, which takes less than an hour in my experience.
I presume, Cactus, that you had your mortgage before you had your zero hours contract. People on zero hours contracts do not get mortgages these days.

Galen, sorry, I did not mean to imply you worked for Atos. I was just asking how things had changed since Atos came on the scene. ( Would have responded earlier but granddaughter, six, had her first nosebleed, so was rather distracted.) We tend to hear things second hand, and from the point of view of the person who has the WCA, not from the doctors who do the reviews.

Oh FFS! Put your chips on shoulders away. I might even start to feel sorry for you.

Who the hell said plumbers and the like are "lowly"?

This thread is bringing out the baaaad side of jingl.

Night night.

It is funny that when market values come into play and plumbers, because there are fewer of them, can command higher fees some people appear find it against the 'natural order' but if we have a glut of lawyers/ accountants etc. we do not expect their hourly rates to fall.

Class is a funny thing!

Class used to be from 'breeding'
Now it's by proffesion!
By breeding, my grandparents were, foundry foreman, housewife.
Barber, housewife.
Parents
Mother
Primary teacher,
Father,
general practioner, magistrate, deputy coronet.
He died at age 54 from a brain tumour, while studiend for a law degree.
Myself!
I'm me!
What class am I ?
I don't care!
I'm me!

Well said Galen
I get a bit annoyed when I hear 'the middle classes' condemned for real or imagined faults, as if the constituents of the middle classes are a homogeneous group with identical values and beliefs.
I am middle class because I was fortunate enough to get a free place at a very good school and then a free university education.
It's like being condemned because you're a baby boomer.
To paraphrase a famous line from Beyond the Fringe,
What if you're middle class and a baby boomer?

Not so much Beyond the Fringe as that Monty Python sketch where everyone tries to outdo everyone else about childhood hardship, ending, I think, with one of them declaring that his family had to get up before they went to bed.

Yes absent one of them lived in a paper bag in the coal hole or something, didn't they?
When we lived in Hongkong in the 70s and 80s we were rather starved of British humour (it existed in those days) and we had an LP of monty Python's Matching Tie and Handherchief which contained that sketch and also the song about the philosophers containing the line
'Rene Descartes was a drunken fart
I drink, therefore I am'
It perhaps seems a bit juvenile now, but friends used to come round just to listen to the LP and we would be falling about laughing.

Anyone see ITVs Tonight programme on the working poor. Here, I think we have the heart of some of the issues already brought to light by the contributors to this discussion.x

A friend volunteers at a London night shelter.

The clients arrive in the evening and have a good meal cooked by local volunteer professional chefs.

I was very surprised to hear that in the morning many of the clients get up and dressed, eat breakfast then go to work!

So even people in employment can't afford to have a roof over their head or eat properly. She said that without exception every client is very lean and looks under-nourished. Another minor point but which I found fascinating, most people don't eat the nice puddings on offer.

Homelessness and hunger .... who'd have thought.

It was me who said "lowly plumbers" jingle as you probably know and "the bad side" of you really doesn't upset me in the least so please feel free to carry on.

The point I was trying to make (although possibly a poor example) is that even the most academic of us need the skills of those who "get their hands dirty" for a living ( electricians, plasterers, plumbers etc. incidentally all very highly skilled in their own right) Although I am sure you knew that was what I meant anyway so not sure why I am explaining myself, never mind.

'durhamjen' I got my mortgage despite having zero hours, got it just before the recession when anyone could get one, |Im very proud Ive never missed one payment and would happily starve to pay for my home.
I was brought up working class but in those days working class meant 'working' not dole/benefit class or the 'underclass as the sociologists call it. I married a into a middle class family who were not very well off but had standards, these standards I adopted so I consider myself middle class now, my daughter is well educated. By standards I mean being well mannered, not sitting around all day in nightclothes etc.
I tend not to tell people what I do, although I work for a huge corporate company, I also have a little bit of self employment selling a skill I learned at college recently and believe it or not I work for an organisation who helps vulnerable people. Therefore I believe that many people use so called poverty as an excuse to moan and grasp for more, I would have more pride if I had nothing I would just do without. Its the moaning minnies I cant stand.

I'd put your comments fit in the "moaning minnie" brigade cactus60. It's been said endlessly, and in many different ways on this thread already. Benefit fraud is a very small percentage of those on benefits. Your comments about standards, not telling people what to do, pride, and your employment could be amusing, if they weren't so barbed. Your prejudice and dislike of so many of your fellow humans comes over loud and clear on this thread. Does it when you're visiting people who 'sit around all day in nightclothes' ?!

Lol about sitting around in nightclothes. Is it ok up to, say, 10 o'clock?! Or 11?!!!

People have got it very easy at the moment with mortgages . Hardly any interest to be paid. (Until the government sends house prices soaring with the help-to-buy scheme)

Can anybody turn up for the left over puddings Riverwalk?