Vaccine

...I struggle to see how condemning today’s children to a broken economy is acceptable to to some.

I struggle with that too Summerlove. And many of today’s parents are expressing similar thoughts.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant MissAdventure. I thought that was it.

Could the vaccine be transported at the temperature it needs?
Apparently a fridge won't cut it.

Good point MissAdventure. More expert staff needed, more time taken. I am not denying the very elderly their right to the vaccine. Just get the quickest people in and out the door first.

In particular Ellianne the huge numbers of people with mental health difficulties. My son in law told me that these problems have soared, and it’s general practice that picks them up. This is not a job that can be handed over to a nurse practitioner.

Good point again. Fridges!!
Close the schools and unis a week early before Christmas and use them as centres to vaccinate. Most of them have plenty of fridges in their kitchens.

If the deaths come down, then the government will be seen to be making progress.

Are you suggesting we should let old people die to maintain the economy? Because thats what it looks like.

Yes, mental health now too. This really is "The nightmare before Christmas" *maddyone.

...just get the quickest people in and out the door first.

Absolutely, and in doing so, cut transmission, and enable society to function. Schools are having trouble staying open because so many staff are off sick or isolating. The same with care homes. Other areas must be similarly hit with huge absences. It makes the most sense, in my opinion.

We had a very "good" system for the people I supported in a home to have their flu jab.
The doc came in at a random time, bang bang bang! Job done.

Then things changed, and it needed weeks of discussion with others in meetings.
Photos, pretend syringes, advocates, families and social workers, as well as the dols assessor. (Who had an 18 month backlog!!!)
All of it written, recorded on countless pieces of paper...

I can't keep up with the madness on this thread. I'm away to my bed.

No Alegrias I’m not. If the deaths come down the government will be seen to be making progress with the pandemic. I’m not sure how you can manage to see any mention of the economy in that particular sentence.

Alegrias2

I can't keep up with the madness on this thread. I'm away to my bed.

Methinks you give up too readily Alegrias.

It looks like the rush on the vaccine is going to dwarf the 'me me me' of the toilet paper panic buying. Glad I want to hold back.

A fairly low percentage of over 65s live in care homes, and possibly no more than about 15% of over 85s.

There would also be the issues surrounding consent to be vaccinated
A good point, *MissAdventure. Consent could be given and may be understood but then forgotten again possibly a few minutes later with the vaccine being refused.

Callistemon how many in addition live at home with carers? They still can't easily get to the surgery if you get what I'm saying.

Yes, but if it was your relative with dementia, I would speak to you.
I could ask if the person had their children vaccinated.
I could show photos of the syringe to the person and record their response.
They may have no objection to vaccination per se, but have a lifelong terror of needles.

I understood that the vaccine needs to be kept way below anything a normal freezer can manage?

I'm a bit scared now I've written it, because I've no idea where I read it.

I've lined kids up for jabs at school before now. The nurse gets through them pretty quickly, sleeves rolled up in advance, look away, sharp scratch, all done, next please. That's because the patients are sprightly and consenting. The process for 80 and 90 year olds can't possibly be as easy and painless. That's why I say, get the quickest and easiest starting at 50 or 60 through the door first.

Ellianne

Callistemon how many in addition live at home with carers? They still can't easily get to the surgery if you get what I'm saying.

Yes, I understand,
If they do have care at home now, of course, as many do not at present.

Ellianne

And if many of the nurses and gps are going to be taken away from their surgeries to chase around the neighbourhood administering vaccines to the elderly in care homes or in their houses, won't they have considerably less time to deal with the ailments of the younger patients at their practice who may have serious issues that need diagnosing? Once again it's a lose lose situation for them.

Oh stop being so silly - how do you think the flu jab is administered every year in care homes? GPs won’t be needed for this jab either and there are many plans afoot already for increasing the number of people who can give the Covid jab such as retired health care staff and community pharmacists. And as for consent issues ,they already deal with that every year re the flu jab and have plenty of time to get the same process in place for Covid jabs.

MissAdventure

I understood that the vaccine needs to be kept way below anything a normal freezer can manage?

I'm a bit scared now I've written it, because I've no idea where I read it.

Apparently it needs to be administered within 5 days of defrosting as long as it is kept in the fridge.

All this debate and we won't even be making any decisions. We will be told who can get the vaccine and when. There will be no choice but to run with the program. No matter how entitled someone feels to a vaccine before someone else, they won't be able to jump the queue. It's best to just sit back and see what your options are when they are available. I'm happy with my own position in the queue at #11.

I understood that the vaccine needs to be kept way below anything a normal freezer can manage?

I think at -70C but will last for a short period of time (days) at a higher temperature than that.

Pfizer has developed a special transport box the size of a suitcase, packed with dry ice and installed with GPS trackers, which can keep up to 5,000 doses of the vaccine at the right temperature for 10 days, as long as it remains unopened. The boxes are also reusable.

Had an email from relatives care home
"Only residents who have capacity to make their own decision will be able to take part in the first round. We will not be giving the vaccine to those who cannot independently make that decision."