AIBU to expect my daughter not to be fined

The stupid part of this is that every school will apply these rules differently. My DD is attending her BIL's wedding - with DGD as bridesmaid - on the Friday that school breaks up, and as it's a long way away, DGD will have to have Thursday off so that they can travel then.
DD asked at school, filled in a form giving details - and received a letter giving authorisation for the two days absence. No fuss, no threats of fines, just a sensible Headteacher and a happy family.

eazybee the school where my niece works sometimes hold ‘twighlight training’ after school. These sessions are ‘out of hours’ and the time is recorded. It allows the teachers to have the actual teacher training day of in lieu. I think this is where the confusion sometimes arises.

Relating to the op, I think it’s sad that in this day and age when we complain that there isn’t enough emphasis on family, children are being prevented from being part of very special family events.

One year, all my school’s training days had been set, but were amalgamated by a new Head into a full week course in the Summer holidays. So staff were able to have a “day off” on the INSET day itself. This wasn’t repeated, as parents did bump into staff in shopping centres etc “when they were supposed to be training”, so I can see what’s probably happened here.

There are some very dubious comments on here.
I was teaching when the first training days, (Baker Days ) were introduced, and although some training sessions were better than others,and we had many, I never knew anyone in any school I worked in have the day off to go shopping. TAs were expected to attend as well, if they dealt with whole school initiatives such as safe-guarding or introduction of new reading, maths schemes etc.
They are not a money making scam, Gillybob; the fines were introduced in an attempt to prevent children missing vital time in school, however little you may value it, and they improved attendance and results. It is difficult to make up work children have missed, particularly when there were so many different absences at different times.
The trouble with using discretion is that it sets a precedent, then the Head has to defend each and every decision.
I am shocked by some ex-teaching colleagues who complained bitterly about children missing school for holidays, who now bombard Heads with pseudo educational -speak about why their grandchildren should have time off, or stupidly pay the fines themselves.

I’m surprised that discretion hasn’t been used in this case. Pupils and staff used to be allowed a day or two off for a close family wedding or funeral. But these rules were brought in to stop what happened at the last school I worked at, where pupils who really couldn’t afford to miss their education would routinely disappear for 3 or 4 months, sometimes without notice, usually because of a poorly relative (we did note some grandparents had several deathbeds, and never died in the Summer holidays). The knock-on effect for staff and other children in the class was horrendous. The clampdown massively improved the attendance, and life prospects, of these children. Sadly, as with so many initiatives, everyone else is caught up in the net, and I do think the rules are too draconian now.

There’s a lot of pressure on schools to meet attendance targets, but I feel for children with health issues who often seem to be got at. I missed my first term at school when I had mumps followed by measles.

In this case I’d be annoyed too, but would pay the fine and enjoy the wedding.

I think the basic reason for the law is fine, to prevent childrens' education being disrupted.

However, in this case the HT appears to be over zealous. The last couple of days at school are not very productive education wise, the child in question has a good attendance record and the reason for the requested absence is a good one. Is there an appeals process the parents could use?

I believe the Head should be able to act with discretion. A wedding is not a day out to a Theme Park it's actually quite educational for a young child and of course they may be seeing family members from far away who are attending.

I used to get annoyed with 'teacher training days' when the teachers would openly discuss that they were going to IKEA and there was no training scheduled.

I wrote a very similar letter to the example you gave mygrannycanfly when my DGC were invited on a once in a lifetime trip involving a large group of extended family. Some they might never see again . The trip was planned to be highly informative with excursions to once in a lifetime places etc. Their HT said NO ( as I expected she would) no reason given . Just NO.

My son and DiL were both fined separately for 3 children . A massive amount of money that we all had to help find . Where did the money go ? Into the LA coffers ?

My mother, a part-time waitress, often used to keep me off school to look after my younger siblings if she was lucky enough to get a lunchtime job in the week. I then had to lie to the school and say I was ill - and my mum wrote a note to that effect. I hated being made to lie, so would not recommend encouraging that.
On the other hand I work with people for whom a £60 fine may equal a two week food bill!
My suggestion would be, as others have said, to write to the head, cc the governors, and point out that as this is a family celebration you will challenge the imposition of any fine and to that end you would like a detailed report of what school work will be undertaken on the days in question.

I wrote a version of this letter for DGD's trip to France during term time. My DD's partner couldn't get any time off from work during the school holidays and was desperate to visit his family for a wedding, so they wanted to take a whole week off school to combine wedding and holiday.

Don't forget that you have a human right to family life. Children from immigrant families routinely take their children out of school for long visits home during term time for this reason.

My DD said the letter seemed to be read by the entire school teaching department. She was astonished by the very positive feedback from everyone from the headteacher down.

These things just need to tick off a few check boxes. Here's my (edited) letter

Dear Headteacher

I would like to request that DGD be absent from school from (date until date) for an educational visit to (Place). This is an exceptional request for absence during term-time to enable her to attend a family wedding and spend time with her (relationship) family who live in (Place)

Of course it is important that we spend time together as a family and that DGD also has an opportunity to build a relationship with her (family members)
Mention any other important family life factors here eg. My partner's father suffers with Dementia and is now not able to travel away from his home environment. Understandably we want to spend as much time with him as possible whilst he is still able to recognise and remember us.

I feel it is very important for DGD's personal and social development that she learns to consider and respect other people's needs as well as her own. I also feel that she will benefit from the experience of living within another cultural (and language) landscape and practising her (foreign) language skills.

As you know, (mention any other child centered facts here) eg DGD has significant educational support needs and we have been advised to get a dog to help DGD's emotional development. My parents-in-law own many animals and this access to animals has enabled DGD to overcome her fear of dogs. We will be getting a dog this summer and this visit will help to further prepare DGD for the responsibilities as well as the pleasures of looking after an animal.

Whilst I feel it will be very good for her to experience educational activities which will complement those offered by the school, I will be happy to undertake some work set by the school.

I believe a short break like this will have a positive effect on DGD's education and development and at the same time benefit our welfare as a family

I too am an ex- teacher. I used to teach children of your granddaughters age in a multi-cultural school. Children would be taken long haul for family weddings and be away for weeks. They were prearranged breaks and we used to produce work for them in the form of a diary with places for photos, tickets, other things so when they returned they had a record of their wonderful experiences. Your granddaughter will be full of excitement about the wedding when she returns and this will, or should, be used in the classroom. The school seems to be unnecessarily inflexible which can only cause resentment in the school/parent relationship.

This business of fines is a money making scam

Yes of course it is Saggi it’s a subject that makes my blood boil.

My daughter was hospitalised 34 times during her school life.... she eventually gained 10 O Levels and 5 ( count them)A Levels!! The schoolroom and indeed the teacher provided by the hospital were excellent and the teacher went round the ward every morning gathering up children of all ages who were well enough to hold a pencil. If they were on drips they scooted them into the schoolroom as well. Even the bed bound didn't 'miss out'. She would come into the ward to get them started on age appropriate work. She was an absolute marvel. Each of my daughters hospitalisation so lasted between 5/8 days that's roughly forty weeks or one whole years schooling. This business of fines is a money making scam! My granddaughter is quite poorly as was her mum as has to have quite bit time off school.... last time it was me who took her back after a prolonged stay in hospital (pnuemonia) where an officious 'helper' who is posted at door to record latecomers through out a remark about my little 6 year old GD about missing her schooling. I through back that just like her mum it would "give the others a chance to catch up".My GD is doing the year above her work already! That shut her up!!

Its not even necessary to say its educationak. If its a family wedding and sge is bridesmaid (I think thats right?) Then it is allowable as an exceptional family event -weddings and funeral count but not holidays. I agree I woulsd apo5eal to the Chair of governors especially if this child has a good attendance record and its two days at the end of the summer term.
I agree that frequest log absences for holudays are a nightmare for teachers and providing suitable work for them while away and then marking it is a lot of extra work and does not substitute for lessons missed. But this does not really apply here.
However I strongly disagree with lying -(saying she is ill) - what an dreadful example to the child, and the school will obviously guess anyway.

I think you have to remember that you if every child in a class was permitted to have time out for whatever reason then there would never be a time that all the class was present at the same time! Very difficult for teachers and difficult for the children too as things would be missed off the curriculum. Teachers wouldn’t have time to constantly repeat lessons for those who missed. Illness cannot be helped but if extra holidays were granted also it could be a nightmare. The standards set now are so high

I don’t remember many people going off on holiday in the school term when I was at school but it simply wasn’t done much in those days, cheap package holidays hadn’t been invented.

It’s a shame prices rise so much in school holidays but I can’t see a reasonable compromise for ALL unless a complete ban is applied during term time. How can you make allowances for one and not for others?

My daughter found herself in trouble with taking term time holidays once. She had repeatedly asked for the term dates for next September, then eventually decided that it was not likely that Friday 1st of September would be a school day and booked the holiday. Then it turned out that that was the first day back at school!
She requested the day off for her two boys and the HT had a moan at her but didn’t fine her.

I would put the request in writing (copy to the Chair of Governors) with a detailed explanation of why attending the wedding is an important educational experience for your granddaughter.

The head does have discretion so unless he’s really determined not to allow it, he might find it easier to approve it or just turn a blind eye.

Someone said 90% was good attendance - it's one day off a fortnight and you'd have the welfare people round! 98%+ is deemed good attendance. 94-97% acceptable. Under 94% is weak

I'm sure the law can be put to one side, when it suits.
Nobody stepped in to ensure my grandson got to school.

July? My primary aged DS will have already started his summer holidays by then. They finish school at the end of June here.

Well I agreed with those who said it's the law so the head had no choice. However I know a primary head socially and asked his opinion and he said that in his opinion the head is wrong as these are exceptional family events and therefore allowable, especially if the child has a good attendance record.

On the text book thing, with the new round of school cuts (£3billion and 98% of schools affected, you can Google a search for how much your child's school will lose), new textbooks will be unheard of. Since 1989, govt and exam changes have altered the secondary syllabus on average every 4 years. I went to school in late 1960s and used books that had been bought 20 years before, just after the war. Some had been written in 1930s! The exams had barely changed since the inception of O levels (1948?)

Adaunas - I was about to make exactly that point. Missing the first week in September is a pain for the child, a pain which lasts all year sometimes.
And personally as a secondary maths teacher, I promise I worked up until the end of the year. We would do maths puzzles, do lovely geometric constructions, play maths games and all sorts. Some teachers get the chance to talk to pupils and iron out a few problems - something there is very little time for, despite all this govt stuff about pupil mental health. Some pupils set targets for next year. Some teachers showed subject-related videos to give deeper knowledge, and I daresay some did not a lot. But please don't tar us all with this 'they don't learn a lot' brush

You are correct adaunas the rule is indeed 48 hours after a tummy bug.

These days HTs have to compile attendance statistics and submit them. That includes authorised absence. It’s not like ‘the old days’. Theses statistics are taken into account by OFSTED.