To be ashamed of being British?

It is just not true * POGGS* that the racism and bigotry was there "on both sides of the argument"

It is not true that all leavers are racists but it is true that all, or very nearly all, of the racists voted to leave the EU. Other leave voters, who chose to vote that way for other reasons, do not like to admit that.

ooops sorry Maggie crossed posts.

Not really Anniebach I have been in bars in Spain, Cyprus etc. where they love to fly the flags of other nations, usually to do with football rivalry but always very good humoured.

Plenty of bars have a display of flags from around the world, or banknotes, or beermats, Annie. Surely you've come across them? The Union flag was on display alongside all the others.

A way of attracting them in, if we want to be cynical.?

Annie a lot of bars around Garda and other tourist spots fly lots of flags, to make tourists from different countries feel welcome there.

Why fly it?

" Why fly the Union Flag in Italy? Most rude "

Why was it rude?

Living in the north east and close enough to Newcastle, but not a Geordie, I was once told by a Scottish lady that we were acceptable because " Geordies are just Scotsmen with their brains knocked out ". I laughed but if I had said that to anyone else I would have been a racist bigot.

Why fly the Union Flag in Italy? Most rude

Really Maggie?

No Gilly, one service a month in Welsh ?

I don't know how I'd describe them, Annie, but I wouldn't use a phrase that implies their nationality is a factor in their stupidity.

How would you describe the Welsh group at a very interesting holiday we shared, who tore down the Union flag from the display in a Lake Garda bar, and replaced it with the huge Welsh flag they'd brought with them (as you do)?

Perhaps the word idiots covers both groups.

Yes Lemon, it was politely explained to him, the not so polite replies were removed, so funny though , poor chap.

We do, and we want all our castles back annie ?

Maggie, how would you describe an English person who complain a church service wasn't in English , in The Church In Wales in Wales?

I know the question wasn't directed at me Annie but I would describe them as being "a bit thick" unless of course the service was supposed to be (or advertised as being) conducted in English in which case I would describe them as "confused".

Most of what is said in a church is gobbledegook to me so wouldn't matter whether it was being conducted in Martian I still wouldn't understand it.

Thank you .Gilly, , even the Beeb commentators refer to England playing Scotland/Ireland , come Wales v England- it's the old enemies , thus it has always been, we all love the battle do we not?

Well said Mawbroon ?

Thanks, whitewave, I'll have a listen to that when it's available.

Possibly confusing URDD with Urdu? ?

As a phrase it trips off the tongue so easily doesn’t it?
I’m not at all sure about being able to take pride in the actions of others of one’s own nationality or to shoulder any collective shame . Two sides of the same coin, are they not?
I am responsible for my actions. Maybe those of my children when they were minors, perhaps indirectly if their behaviour reflects their upbringing, but ultimately each person must take responsibility for their own actions or attitudes.
Were I to feel I was somehow part of a collective guilt for the actions of others I would not let it stop at nationality , I would think (as I often do) that I am ashamed of some members of the human race.

Maggie, how would you describe an English person who complain a church service wasn't in English , in The Church In Wales in Wales ?

Did have a giggle last week, a very cross English person asked on a local internet site - why are there so many posters around the town saying some roads will be closed for the .udd parade on Saturday , why close roads for Muslim parades . The parade was to celebrate next year The URDD festival was being held here. The URDD is for children and young people to socialise in Welsh , it was formed in 1922.

" The ill-judged, badly-run EU referendum seems to have either caused a dramatic rise in racist and bigotted views or has encouraged the racists and bigots to express their views and act accordingly."

On both sides of the argument .

Of course those in denial that there are severe problems in this country relating to ethnicity should perhaps read the government report which outlines in great detail the issues faced by so many of our fellow citizens, from poorer health outcomes, to fewer life opportunities, to greater harassment from the police, to hate abuse/crime. Problems are increasing not as so many would like to think settling into nice cosy relationships.
Being in denial does nothing to solve the very great problems so many are facing.

Well okay Anniebach I will give you that .

What I should have said is.... that first and foremost I would support England ( I am English after all) and then when they have been knocked out ( as we are used to) I will support any of our home nations be it Wales, Scotland, Ireland. I can never understand the "anyone but England" attitude of some of the Scots . It really puzzles me .