that pensioners driving could be a danger on the roads

I came up this problem of when someone is unfit to drive when DD very seriously damaged her right arm in a road accident. She wanted to get back into a car and drive as soon as possible so she didn't lose her nerve, but I was really worried as to whether she could legally drive when her arm was still very weak.

I never got an answer but her solicitor provided the solution. He said other people with injuries like hers usually drove automatic vehicles, so that they had both hands on the wheel all the time. So she went out and bought an automatic. Her arm has made a good recovery, although she does have a permanent disability and, as she says, she will just continue to drive automatic cars.

DH has just had his licence renewed for 3 years and started driving again, following a post stroke seizure 20 months ago. DVLA move very slowly and ask for all sorts of medical reports before they will allow someone to drive. Quite reasonable I believe. However stroke and seizure recoverers are only advised not to drive. There are no official reports by the medical authorities. As a result we know of several recoverers who have continued to drive. Of course if they were to have an accident, their insurance would be invalid. But that would be of small comfort to anyone they hit. The husband of a former colleague sneaked out and wrote off a row of parked cars, because he would not accept he was unfit to drive. It does seem wrong that unfitness to drive should be self regulating.

"One acquaintance of our recently had a cerebral aneurysm and was not advised to avoid driving for a while "

Cerebral aneurysm is one of the conditions that it's compulsory to notify the DVLA about.

None of the doctors told me that it's compulsory to notify them of my atrial fibrillation, I just found out by accident. I did ask one doctor explicitly, but he just squirmed in his chair a bit and avoided the question.

When I was applying for a photocard driving licence ten years ago I asked my GP whether I had to declare ocular migraine, but he just told me to go and ask the DVLA saying "It's not my job to give medical opinions". Over the five months that it took to get my licence back it became abundantly clear that he didn't want the responsibility of making a decision.

I think young aggressive males are probably far worse than most elderly drivers. I often think that some drivers could have taken drugs the night before or even that morning from the way they drive so recklessly.

However, I do agree that some testing may be advisable over a certain age, but certainly most people of 50+ or 60 are better drivers than some youngsters. Unless people have an illness which may cause slower reactions or eyesight deterioration then I don't think testing is necessary until say 75+ if they are in good health.

A friend of DH has just had a test to see if he can get his licence back after a stroke and has been refused. He is very upset but I think it was the right decision.

I don't like driving, but I drive anywhere. It was what I meant by self regulating- 10 miles from home is fine if they are confident with that.

No, I and DH regularly (almost daily) drive on motorways, dual carriageways and abroad. We would be unable to visit either DC if we limited ourselves to single carriage way roads, that or the journey would take 7 or 8 hours rather than 4.

DiL's mother never drives far outside the town where she lives so doesn't drive on motorways and rarely on dual carriageways, but she has a lifetime free train travel card as her late husband worked for British Rail so she has never had any incentive to drive other than locally.

I'm curious to know if any of you refuse to drive on motorways or in unfamiliar areas.
An acquaintance of mine will not drive outside a 10 mile radius of home so no dual carriage ways. I find that worrying, although I've never seen her drive.

I passed my first driving test at 65, on the theory test I got 50 out of 50 which included a hazard perception test. After the actual test the examiner thanked me for a pleasant drive. I think a lot of accidents occur because, when someone has been driving for a high number of years , sometimes they can get complacent

I think it should read 'some pensioners'-generally they are safer than those who have newly passed their test. I think they self regulate, I can see that I shall cut out longer journeys as I age.
I am not even going to read what they say on MN-there is terrible ageism on there! I don't think that they would imagine that I can have just done a week's skiing aged over 60yrs or run a half marathon last year. Once you are over 50yr you appear to have to sit at home, keep off the roads, keep out of shops at lunchtime and should never ever make any comments about children! (I don't think they will imagine they can still work, drive, ski etc etc at that age!)

I find night driving hard - especially if it is raining. I have quite bad astigmatism as well as being very short-sighted and the optician said that I will always find night driving difficult and it cannot be corrected. I live in the country with no street lights so I have to take care. I do not drive at night if I can help it.

DD2 had a crash while swerving to avoid an 80+ male driver who was driving against the flow on the wrong side of a dual carriageway. Nobody could stop him until he crashed his car.

A young girl was killed in our town by another 80+ who careered onto the pavement. He had been told to stop driving by police days earlier when he sped into a petrol pump. Due to a campaign by the girl's mother Police now have the power to take your driving licence from you on the spot, they didn't have this power before.

I agree that it is not age that makes you a bad driver, but that we should all know our limits. I am sure a lot of people would not drive if there was an alternative!

was not suggesting all pensioners are dangerous on the road - just that maybe we should be subject to some kind of test (myself included as I deteriorate) as we have all seen the 'old ones' peering over/through the steering wheel, forgetting to indicate, unable to reverse properly (not that some younger drivers are not guilty of the same).
my premise was - are we all aware of our limitations (it is reassuring that others find night driving difficult) when I was younger I commuted long distances to work and I know I would not be safe/relaxed about doing the same now.
There are those anecdotally who are NOT aware of their limitations or feel because they have reached a ripe old age without a major accident are somehow as good as they once were (men in particular seem to hold this opinion about their driving ability. )

I would hope that I will know when I am unsafe to drive.
I must admit that I do find driving at night more difficult and try to avoid it, but still enjoy driving in the daylight and feel safe. I am 64

Here in Italy you have to renew your license every 5 years! You have to have a" medical" which consists of standing in front of a chart with letters on (like in the opticians) and covering one eye at a time with your hand and reading the letter being pointed to! The trouble is ,looking at some of the people driving here ,I'm sure they go up the chart until a letter is found (that huge A at the top) that can be read!!! Oh, and you have to pay approx. €50 to the "doctor"!!

Good for you both, Flickety.

Others might like to know that the IAM assessments are carried out in your own car, with an IAM examiner who will give you a full verbal and written report at the end of your drive. Of course there is no pass or fail to worry about!

www.iam.org.uk or telephone 0208-996 9600

I think testing over 50 /60's is a good idea as others have said not everyone recognises when their driving is deteriorating. I drive a lot and drove for a living for many years and hope that I will know when I am unsafe to drive, I love to drive and will miss it when I am not able to anymore. I like the idea of testing regularly and am interested in the Advanced Driving course I shall look into that when I am nearing 70.

I think the figures they quite speak for themselves, older drivers are less accident prone than younger drivers.
Most (but not all) of us recognise when we are no longer safe (primarily because we get nervous about driving) and voluntarily stop.
I do think my reactions are slower than they used to be, but are they, or is it that I am now more aware of the dangers? I certainly drive slower and less aggressively than I used to.
I would however prefer all drivers over the age of 50 to have to show proof of acceptable eyesight, too many think their sight is OK when it is far from the legal requirement.
As said the word pensioner is irrelevant, the capabilities of older drivers is so diverse age alone is no measure of competence or ability.

That's interrsting Flick I'd like to do that assessment myself when I'm old enough.

I don't drive but my DH will be 69 next month and he is an excellent driver. Never had an accident of any sort. However, there is an elderly lady who comes to visit a neighbour of mine and watching her trying to reverse when she is leaving is quite scary (I would think she is getting on for 90). As she reverses she comes partially onto our drive, with the car shaking and juddering. I fully expect her to come careering through our house any time soon!

That's good to know for the future FlicketyB. Statistically aren't younger drivers more likely to be involved in accidents than our age group?

The suggestion on the Mumsnet thread of a computerised reaction test seems a good idea to me. The majority of older drivers are less likely to be involved in accidents, but those who are clearly struggling because of frailty or slow reaction times might not be the best judge of their own abilities on the road. I have to say I see my car as my independence and would be lost without it, but if I was struggling to drive safely I'd be loathe to go out in it.

How well you drive in your 60 pluses is as variable as how well you drive when under that age. It is just those seeing a bit of bad driving notice and comment if the driver is old but not if they are not. I do accept that some drivers do get more dithery as they get older, but, on the other hand they are less likely to speed or cut people up.

The Institute of Advanced Motorists offers special test drive for those over 70 to assess their driving and make recommendations. DH (70 plus) has just done the full IAM course, passed it and is now a member of the institute. I do not want to do that but I am going to have the 70 plus assessment.

Most of my driving is on unlit rural roads, often return journeys of up to 70 miles. I'm still happy enough to drive although I'm in the very fortunate position of not needing specs and have good night vision. (Thanks for the genes, dad!) I'm not so keen on city driving, however, and avoid it where possible using Park and Ride and my bus pass. I do find myself getting stuck behind elderly - and not so elderly - drivers who do not drive to the speed limit causing tailbacks, impatience and risky overtaking. I think if you don't feel confident driving to the speed limit then you should perhaps consider whether you should still be behind the wheel. My 87 year old FIL is still driving and he's an accident waiting to happen. His perception of speed and distance isn't good and I refuse to get in a car with him now.

It's a difficult question. If only everyone could be aware of when they should not be driving. I'm not so happy about driving on unlit roads at night these days. My FIL is still driving at 85 but I would not get in the car with him although I never have been comfortable with his driving.

Dh drives a lot with his job and I feel quite safe with him but yes of course any problem is caused by other drivers who are always assumed to be women !

I don't think the word pensioners should be used in the article. Much fairer to say people over X age. Possibly 60.

Yes, I do think it's a good idea to have to be re tested when your older. If you suspect someone is incapable of driving anymore you can report them to DLA. Several people on the Alzheimer's forum have had to do this for a loved one who refused to stop.