Christian Family face possible legal action

Why does the phrase 'thought police' spring to mind.
Weren't the boarding house people exonerated at appeal?

I'm just not going to answer that Bags. Enjoy your hay making. Or whatever it is you intend to do with the hay. I'm off to town for lovely some retail therapy.

Talking of horses, I'm off out to deal with some hay.

You weren't insulted, jings; your comment was. Valid criticism whether you agree with the criticism or not, so no need to feel insulted. Annoyed, maybe, cross even, but not insulted.

Of course it was judgmental. And insulting. If not then perhaps she will explain why she considers the use of the term 'Christian Church' lazy? And why, when jingl did me the courtesy of answering my query she chose to describe that as 'risible'.

I'd be interests to hear an explanation, then perhaps the thread can return to the debate.

Tolerant of being insulted? I should hope not! Get off your high horse Bags. You know it's a false one.

Tolerant heathens though, eh

Sometimes, some of the people on Gransnet could turn the whole world heathen.

Calm down, jings, for goodness sake.

Touchy!!

I think the Norn Irn bakery directors forgot that ultimate Christian principle of loving their neighbours even ones of whom they disapprove. Daft buggers.

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Bags suggestion is good and has parallels with other things too. I imagine that deep in the small print of Gransnet's terms and conditions will be something to the effect that opinions expressed are those of individual posters and do not necessarily reflect the views of GNHQ.

Aka although 'lazy' and 'risible' could be considered slightly perjorative, MiceElf was not being judgemental about you and Jingle. She was criticising your use of a term, and Jingl's explanation.

You are very judgemental about other people MiceElf eg jingl is risible, my use of 'Christian Church' is lazy.

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It has just occurred to me that a way out of such ethical/moral quandaries is used all the time. For instance, a lot of people on Twitter, especially fairly famous people who get a lot of requests that they retweet the tweets of other people or other organisations, make it clear in their profiles that "a retweet is not an endorsement".

The bakery could have made a statement to that effect, such as "We do not necessarily endorse what we are asked to print on our cakes."

Bit simple for mega-disapprovers, maybe? They'd rather cause a ruckus with their pompousness.

Can anyone explain the Christan Institute mentioned in The Independent article above? Coolgan perhaps if you're local?

Jingl thank you for your explanation of the Christian Church's view on homosexuality.

I am glad it is the first time we have been forced to become aware of the 'religious convictions of the bakery directors' (so not the bakery shop assistants then, it would appear). I don't need to know about bakery directors' religious convictions, thank you. I just need to know that they run a bakery and can sell the bakery goods.

I can understand someone feeling that printing a picture to go on a cake might be 'endorsing' whatever campaign the cake is supposedly for, but I think that is a mistaken way of thinking.

If everyone applied their religious convictions about life choices other people make to their jobs we'd be in a right sectarian bigoted pickle. Oh, hang on, this is Northern Ireland, right? Nuff said on that score then.

Just a little background information, this bakery started I think around 1992 and I worked in an office facing it. They were the best bakery ever, a bun-run was done from the office each lunchtime. The bakery did so well that they expanded and opened more shops. They now bake in a central bakery and supply their own shops. The central bakery also has a cafe with loads of parking etc. set in the local countryside.

I live about 1 mile from 2 of these shops and also the central bakery. Many other stores stock their baked goods across the County.

This is the first time that I became aware of the ethos of the shops.

Here is The Independent's version of the story.

The directors of the bakery claim that producing the cake with the slogan 'amounts to endorsing the campaign for the introduction of gay marriage in the province, and goes against their religious convictions', and the Christian Institute, which is supporting the bakery, says 'it is not discriminatory for managers to refuse to endorse a political campaign'.

On the other hand, the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland 'has now written to the firm insisting that are in breach of the law. It claimed that refusing to print the cake amounted to discrimination on grounds of sexual orientation against the man who placed the order'.

So it boils down to a question of whether the bakery were refusing to promote a campaign, or refusing to provide a service to someone because he was gay.

I didn't say that the slogan was going to be on the cake, just that it was the slogan of the campaign group ordering it. I don't know whether it was to be included in the decoration.

I guess they possibly accepted the order before thy knew what the slogan was going to be.

I could easily believe that some groups with radical views might go out of their way to provoke controversy.

I do find this issue is less black and white than many. What about conscientious objectors. I could see many reasons why someone may want to refuse a particular job.
How about if someone wanted to send an ex partner a cake decorated with aggressive and offensive slogans, would it be wrong to refuse that?

Just one correction, sunseeker. The B&B owners didn't refuse the gay couple a room. They refused them a double room and claimed that they did not let double rooms to unmarried couples of any persuasion. The men could have had single rooms or, I believe, a twin room. As everyone knows, it isn't possible to have sex except in a double bed. There are those of us who remember the days when unmarried hetero couples found it difficult to book a double room in a hostelry in the UK. You bought a curtain ring and called yourselves Mr and Mrs Smith. And in those far off days, a same sex couple had no trouble at all. The longer I live, the weirder I find life.

Let us wait and see if Frank Oz and Jim Henson's heirs take the council or whoever ordered the cake to court for breach of copyright.

Bags I don't think it would matter how they advertise themselves - they simply have to obey the law.

For what it's worth, my opinion is that they haven't broken any laws just gone with their beliefs.