Compulsory sterilisation?

The words of that song have reminded me of something that happened a long time ago. My ex was/has never been a violent man but I did end up with a bit of a black eye once [you know, I can't even remember how or why it happened] but the only person who looked at me and then mentioned it was one of the other mothers at school, and I realised that she knew because she, herself, was in an abusive relationship [far worse than mine]. A sort of 'takes one to know one' situation I guess.

Yes, I remember it Marelli. Alan Bennett is very good at leading you along and flipping your expectations when you've started 'proving' the story to yourself.

That kind of sums it up, when. Can you remember one of Alan Bennett's 'monologues'? A Lady of Letters, it was called, and Patricia Routledge acted in it? She was a lonely woman who noticed that things weren't quite right with the family across the road. Things weren't quite normal, in her eyes. So she wrote to the 'authorities', because she thought that a child was being abused in some way. The outcome wasn't that however, and she had, in her own way caused a lot of hurt by her interference. I think I'd take that chance though, and I think we all have a responsibility to do that.

Marelli your post reminded me of Suzanne Vega's song 'Luca'

My name is Luca
I live on the second floor
I live upstairs from you
Yes i think you've seen me before
If you hear something late at night
Some kind of trouble, some kind of fight

Just don't ask me what it was (3x)

I think it's 'cause i'm clumsy
I try not to talk too loud
Maybe it's because i'm crazy
I try not to act too proud
They only hit until you cry
And after that you don't ask why

You just don't argue anymore (3x)

Yes i think i'm okay
I walked into the door again
If you ask that's what i'll say
And it's not your business anyway
I guess i'd like to be alone
With nothing broken, nothing thrown

Just don't ask me how i am (3x)

My name is Luca
I live on the second floor
I live upstairs from you
Yes i think you've seen me before
If you hear something late at night
Some kind of trouble, some kind of fight

Just don't ask me what it was(3x)

They only hit until you cry
And after that you don't ask why

You just don't argue anymore (3x)

Faye, very well put. If I heard, or saw for instance, that the little boy next door was obviously being neglected, or if I heard him crying or saw bruises on him, would I not feel that the necessary authorities should be contacted? And if nothing was done about it, would I not contact the police? Of course I would - without a doubt. And without fear of reprisals from anyone.

Well said, Faye! A child's safety comes before anything.

There will indeed be other tragedies like this - the weight of the system seems to hold back people from simply acting on common sense. As I said earlier, I am surprised that the safeguarding system within the school did not get triggered. These systems are usually very sensitive (there are those who would say over sensitive) and it is odd that this poor child fell through the net.

Some parents can be so plausible and we are inclined to go with the flow rather than challenge people. We do not want to be the one who sticks their head above the parapet - but we have to.

I do agree with galen about the problems of generic social workers and SW training. When I trained it was in the "medical social work" specialty (which existed then) and others were doing children and families, mental health, probaiton etc. We had a core of learning which was done together, but then we hived off into our specialties and had separate learning and placements. We all dipped into the other specialies during our training as well, which was useful. I initially worked in a maternity hospital, so some of the children's stuff I did on my course was highly relevant.

But I do agree with faye - people need to act on common sense as well as on protocols. Just pick up the phone.

Exactly Faye

Faye very well put.

I actually feel angry at some of the comments on here. There must be lots of children who do not have perfect lives attending schools and many young and inexperienced social workers but that is besides the point. Just how hard is it for a teacher or parent to pick up the phone and just call Social Services when they see right in front of their eyes day after day a starving and beaten child who has bruises, black eyes and is stealing food. It seems to me there are too many rules. Does everything have to be rubber stamped by "the authorities" because everyone is too scared to take some responsibility to reach out and make a phone call. Or is it really "someone else's problem." It was every single person who saw Daniel Peltra day after day and did nothing who should hang their heads in shame. The other parents at the school, the neighbours, besides the teachers at the school included. Yes his mother and stepfather killed him but nobody cared enough to help him. The head and the doctors who saw him should be sacked for stupidity.

The same as I read gob smacked about Simon Burgess who drowned in three feet of water while people looked on. Even a police officer stood by because he was ordered back by "someone in authority". Did the attending policeman not think he should take some responsibility and wade into three feet of water and save a drowning man. The fireman said it wasn't their job, did they think their should be a position of a drownman set up just for that purpose. No one else thought it might be the right thing to save him.

Then the other day I read of a woman who was sacked from her job at the school canteen because she accidently served a child the wrong food.

The mindset seems to be very strange and in too many cases common sense and empathy is lacking. Maybe legislation to change the system that is obviously not working. If people keep doing nothing and making feeble excuses this tragedy will happen again very soon.

nanaej it would be helpful if you would stop talking down to me. I have a long career in teaching, and working for the LEA's Children's Services and with Social Workers. I'm withdrawing from this thread. This is exactly the sort of attitude I encountered among certain professionals who refused to recognise the expertise of other professionals and so scuppered the 'joined up' thinking and other recommendations after the Victoria Climbie review and out of which grew 'Every Child Matters'.

Sounds ideal!

Also systems change with a change of minister or as a result of an inquiry.
We had a good system in place in the LA where I worked. Any concerns were centrally logged, one phone number, from GP/schools/SS/neighbours etc etc so a big picture was easily seen and connections made. We could just phone up the duty desk with the slightest concern about a child for it to be logged. I gather this is no longer in operation. Not sure why as it seemed so sensible.

I felt the biggest mistake was when SS became generalised rather than specialised. The mental welfare ones were great, but the general ones hadn't the training or knowledge.

I had my first social work job at the age of 21 and felt as though I was really too young. I went and did a post-grad qualification for a year, then returned to work - still feeling as though I was wet behind the ears.

I have been involved in social work education in the past - I think we have discussed this before - and it had become very "issue-based" and bogged down in the latest PC fads, when what it should have been doing was giving SWs some real solid basis of supervised experience and clear protocols. Some of the SWs who went through my hands as students were passed by their colleges - and I did not rate them as fit to practice.

It truly is such a thankless task - you have to have the skill to make warm connections with families and gain their trust, whilst at the same time retaining the strength and professional objectivity to take harsh decisions when needed. A real tightrope walk requiring quality well-trained staff with some life experience behind them.

In my view there are too many managers hiding behind desks and reports and too little quality supervision of those at the sharp end. That supervision is critical to good practice.

I found being Child Protection person in a big comprehensive school (along with teaching etc) a very hard and emotionally demanding job, and could not have coped without the local Social Workers to hand to give advice and support.

Sadly social work is now seen as a 'job for kids' in the sense that it is a degree course to be embarked upon like any other at the age of 18. How on earth can an 18 year old have the faintest idea what they are letting themselves in for?

nanaej a most dignified response! Let's focus on the children and what our own experiences can tell us.

nfk many social workers put 20 or 30 years into the job, having trained when they were mature. Some will manage more. It's not a job for kids, although plenty of post-graduates do join the service. My friend the ex PO did 25 years in probation and is in her fifties now. It's an exhausting job and she has the luxury of specialising in three schools. Working in a busy social services office, covering many other duties as well as a caseload, is even tougher. Many social workers succumb to stress.

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Iam and when. Informative and insightful posts.

Sorry nonu this is a thread about the murder of a small child. I do not want it to become a trivial argument between us so am choosing not to respond to your comments.

Remenber my dear , there are two sides to every story !!

Gushing & emotional responses !!

What on Gods sweet earth are you on about ??????

when that's what i was trying to say!