... to feel angry about single mother of 11 getting new house built for her!!

She is one of only 190 families who have more than 8 children and claim unemployment benefits, so the problem is not large. But it has also been in the papers that at her previous home she and her children harrassed and abused the elderly lady living next door. Her family encouraged their mother to leave and to keep a diary, she refused to move and kept a diary but showed it to no one so that it was only after her death, several years after the large family moved on, that they discovered it and realised just how bad the harrassment had been.

I think families like this (harrass and make their neighbour's lives hideous)should have some form of family ASBO served on them and have to live in some form of supervised accommodation until such time as it was felt they could be safely allowed back into normal accommodation.

Now that we are going to be closing down more armed service establishments, there must be groups of army quarters or the like that could accomodate such families in small groups away from other people. I remember from my army childhood lving on isolated army estates of 10 or 20 houses, usually on the edges of a town or village that would be ideal for such families.

In 1950 we moved into a council house. It was lovely; effectively semi-detached as it was the end of the terrace, brand new, and we loved it - for a few days. Then a family with three kids moved in next door. They were evil. Filthy, noisy, wild, sexually loose, destructive - the lot. Mum was terrified that vermin were coming to us from them, and no-one could sleep with their noise.

She went to the council for help, but they said they DELIBERATELY put families like that next to good families like ours and their other next-doors. We were supposed to influence them to change!!! What a laugh. Mum would have loved it if they had been moved somewhere amongst their own kind.

We moved ourselves, to a tied house through Dad's job. A family tragedy happened there. We moved to another council house, but Mum checked out the neighbours before she took the key!!!

I still remember them with loathing, and feel so very much empathy with people who suffer like that.

flick these people see the ASBO as a trophy, it is not a deterent but I abs agree with everything else you say though.

But if a family ASBO was devised that made a move to supervised accommodation part of the deal, then it would be a real inconvenience and not worth boasting about.

Very true FlicketyB

I must say, I agree with everything being said here,and years ago when i was young and married young with three kids, iwe lived in a small rented house,where it was so damp, we had to nail the wallpaper to the walls!We waited years to get a council house, just two bedroom, but it was heaven.That woman is spoiled beyond words!

Liminetta - can you specify what posts you agree with, as some are in direct opposition to others! Several of us have pointed out that, although there are some families like this, and they are irritating, they are in a tiny minority - we have been given the statistics.
Nobody has defended this foolish woman on this thread.

liminetta Are you suggesting by "spoiled beyond belief" that it would be better for this family, some of whom I think are still quite young children, to live in a house where they have to "nail the wallpaper to the walls" because of the damp?

No wonder some new members don't stay!

Ana, we have, I beleive, 7,000 members - I don't check every post to see if it is posted by a new member. And anybody taking part in a discussion of this sort must surely realise that there was a certain amount of 'difference of opinion'.

Compared with having to wait an age just to get a decent house which is still far too small? Yes she's being spoilt. And having more children than she can afford to care for? Yes, she's selfish and inconsiderate. Luckily, as Greatnan points out, there aren't too many like her. We can't afford it!

Ana I don't understand your post. Are you suggesting that it would be better for children to live in a damp house?

I'm suggesting that it might be kinder to let new members settle in for a while before challenging their opinions so stridently.

Oh, I see and yes that might be a good idea. However, the "new member's" post was pretty forthright and it seemed to me that it required a pretty forthright response. Presumably, she didn't just turn to the the end of this thread without reading what had gone before, so would have been aware of the issues raised.

I got the impression that she had not read all the posts, because she could not agree with everyone if she had read them all. i had never seen her name before, so assumed that she was new.

I do not understand what was 'strident' about my post. It is one of those blanket terms used just to make another poster seem aggressive or bullying.
Perhaps somebody could tell me how my post should have been worded.

Ana I didn't think Ms Frost was living in a damp house. She was adequately housed in two houses knocked through. I understood Liminetta to be simply pointing out that a lot of people are living in far worse conditions and not getting Eco houses built for them.

We have a huge number of members who have never posted, so we have no way of knowing if an unfamiliar name is that of a long-established 'lurker' or a new member. And does it matter?

Greatnan For the record I think we have at least twice that number of members by now.

Twice a huge number? That IS a lot.

I mentioned 7,000 in a previous post. Wow, we are doing well if we are now around 14,000. We can't be expected to remember everybody who posts.

No one has mentioned the young man who fathered umpteen children by different mothers. This person has now met his end at the hands of another outside a pub. All through this thread I wondered why no one compared the two characters. Both equally indifferent to the results of their actions. We pay for their children. I think neither nature nor nurture will have the slightest effect on any of these children.

Anybody fish up anyone else to get bitter and twisted about?

Aren' t you bored yet?

The kids have grown up and left home while you've all been chewing it over.

We had 7,000 members in the first year of gransnet. I think the last time GNHQ gave us a clue about membership, they said 15,000. Still pretty small potatoes compared with some forums.