Assisted Dying Bill falls

Totally agree. Hate to think of anyone dying in pain, good palliative care a must for enveryone.

I’m horrified and very surprised. Palliative care can only do so much, and nobody should be prevented from choosing to die.

Guess I‘ll start saving for Dignitas …

It shouldnt be either or. My husband died slowly over eight days. Doctors excellent but were clear he wasn’t stable enough to come home to die, he might die on the journey. Our daughters were with me throughout. Day five one said to me, mum this is so wrong, you wouldn’t let one of your dogs suffer like this. Despite it all we stayed with him and we remain relieved we were able to be with him.
I have a DNR and LPA in place. Lisa Ann , digits on my list as well

This is a terrible injustice forcing the attitudes of one set of people against others.

If the bill went through it means those who were against it could choose not to use euthanasia. Those who were for the bill have had their right to choose denied.

We appear to have not moved on since the dark ages, we treat animals better than we treat humans.

Many years ago I was in the room when the very kind doctor administered the morphine shot and said “ at peace now”. This practice is no longer done and therefore we are left with no help at all.

Grandma70s

I’m horrified and very surprised. Palliative care can only do so much, and nobody should be prevented from choosing to die.

But the point is that at the moment it is a complete lottery to be able to access high quality palliative care which CAN do a great deal. Without access to a guaranteed valid choice between good palliative care and assisted dying there is not a balanced choice for people to make and that is wrong. Plus there were so many loophole potentials in this rushed and poorly crafted bill.

Many years ago I was in the room when the very kind doctor administered the morphine shot and said “ at peace now”. This practice is no longer done and therefore we are left with no help at all

That is not the case!

Allsorts

Totally agree. Hate to think of anyone dying in pain, good palliative care a must for enveryone.

It's not either/or it's both/and. And I'm afraid anyone who thinks we'll see more resources going into palliative care as a result of this is going to be sadly disappointed.

I feel conflicted about this, I believe someone in sound mind should be able to choose but what if unscrupulous people close the person with a terminal diagnosis, who have their eyes on an inheritance, try to put pressure on the person who is dying to do it sooner rather than later. And though some die in terrible pain others may feel able to carry on living with some quality of life until near the end.
Am not totally against it but not totally convinced either.

“It shouldn’t be either or”

I agree Iam64.

I’m sorry your late husband had to go through that, and you and your daughter had to experience his distress. I’ve just lost a good friend in similar circumstances. Her palliative care was excellent - but it could only do so much.

The problem with ‘having’ to go to Dignitas is that one is ‘forced’ to go whilst one is still able to travel, which may be earlier than is ‘necessary’.

Good palliative care and the choice to die when that no longer eases the suffering would be the humane approach IMO.

The palliative care was good other than that night when he clearly needed more morphine. The night nurse was grumpy and told me he’s had his morphine for tonight. I reminded her though he was on a stroke ward, which was here focus, stage four cancer had caused the series of strokes and he was increasingly distressed, clearly in pain. She wasn’t pleased saying she’d have to call a doctor. The doc prescribed morphine. The following morning he was fitted with a morphine pump so the pain was managed

I read that Esther R is ready for Dignitas but her body isn’t strong enough for the journey.

I think this issue will return.

I am in complete agreement with your post Fairislecable.

It’s a tragic situation isn’t it Iam. My friend went ‘to hell and back’ but is at peace now.

I read the same about Esther R. She had hoped the bill would go through last year, so she may have been able to end her life, with dignity, at home with her family.

Now she is too frail to travel to Dignitas😢

Himself died 6 months ago in a hospice as per his wishes. He was not in any pain for which I am eternally grateful as that was his biggest fear when he knew he was dying. I just wish the wonderful work of hospice care didn’t have to rely so heavily on charitable donations. His wonderful
Consultant Alison told me only 30% of their funding came from government sources.

Those who work there are truly angels in uniforms.

I am glad. We have seen in other countries like The Netherlands and Canada how a legislation intended to offer compassionate release to those terminally ill has transmogrified to death on demand for almost anything and what happens as this develops.

It is not people being persuaded or guided into death that is the danger, but reaching a point where the living just assume that people with certain conditions will choose to die, and, as a corollary that not to choose it is a selfish act.

We have seen this with abortion. Parents who have had a scan and been told that their expected child has a disability are greeted with shock and disapproval if they decide to give birth to the child rather than abort it.

It is not about official attitudes, which will be official and correct but the attitudes of the people they are coming into contact with in and around the hospital and among people who are part of their near and wider networks.

The same wwill happen with assisted death.

I’m not making light of a deeply sensitive subject when I remember my years working for a vet, where assisted dying is the norm.
I remember the anguish families went through, trying to make the decision to have a beloved pet put to sleep.
I remember their pain afterwards, thinking they had done it too soon or left it too late.
I remember tearful calls begging for reassurance that they had done the right thing.
How can people imagine their feelings if it was not a cat or dog but their mum or grandfather they were asking it for? These decisions would be far harder than most people could do and their regret would never go away, whichever way they decided.

I agree FGT - it is shameful that hospice, end of life care relies on charity.

Will AB put his money where his mouth is and fund hospice care?

M0nica

I am glad. We have seen in other countries like The Netherlands and Canada how a legislation intended to offer compassionate release to those terminally ill has transmogrified to death on demand for almost anything and what happens as this develops.

It is not people being persuaded or guided into death that is the danger, but reaching a point where the living just assume that people with certain conditions will choose to die, and, as a corollary that not to choose it is a selfish act.

We have seen this with abortion. Parents who have had a scan and been told that their expected child has a disability are greeted with shock and disapproval if they decide to give birth to the child rather than abort it.

It is not about official attitudes, which will be official and correct but the attitudes of the people they are coming into contact with in and around the hospital and among people who are part of their near and wider networks.

The same wwill happen with assisted death.

That is a very real danger. Well said.

Good.

I am so relieved. I am not one to give him credit but I dont think it would have happened without Burnham. I have spent 30 years working with vulnerable people, Monica has just clearly articulated the risks this bill would pose to them.
When I voted Labour it was partly to support vulnerable people, it wasnt to support very privileged TV personalities.

I'm glad the bill has failed in its present state, the safeguards are just not tight enough in my opinion. If it is brought back again it should be named what it is, assisted suicide. Why are some so fearful of accuracy? Is it because suicide is regarded as wrong or shameful in some way? The euphemism does not change the nature of the beast.

Like M0nica I'm fearful of pressure being exerted on people, or them just feeling they ought to take the option. I have experience of a pregnancy that was diagnosed as having a high risk of a very serious health condition and was advised on the 'rightness' of termination. One health official, when I refused that option, went so far as to question was I considering my other children and the implications for the health service etc. Fortunately the risk had been grossly overestimated and my child was born perfect.

I have mulled over this for a long time and I have to agree with M0nica.

Also, having lost family members in tragic circumstances, I am offended by the argument that "we would put an animal down". We cannot compare the loss of a family member to a pet, however much we care about them.

People request it for themselves watermeadow. When we make the choice for the pets we love, we do so because they can't do it for themselves.