Populism on a sharp decline

I still predict a win for Trump.
The voters are turning out in force o that’ll upend the poll predictions anyway.

Just wishful thinking whitewave as from what I see and read about, emotional responses ( from everyone!) seems to be increasing.

you-gov survey 25 countries throughout Europe
The Guardian article I read states that 25 countries across the world were surveyed but only 8 of them were in Europe.

Urmstongran & Lemongrove
It also stated ( in the Guardian) that these anti votes probably a backlash against their governments reaction to covid and the populists were more than likely to rise again when it's over.

That makes sense Petra

It does make great sense Petra. When people are scared they cling to what they know to feel safe.

I hope you're right whitewave, about a rejection of the Trump/Johnson type politics.

I'm interested in lemongrove's view, that 'emotional responses (from everyone) seems to be increasing'. My current irritation is towards self diagnosis of serious m.h. problems such as anxiety state, or clinical depression. Often what people are describing are uncomfortable feelings of sadness, or worry. Is that what you meant lemon? It goes without saying, that I am in no way dismissing the significance of feelings but a feeling is a different thing than a genuine diagnosis of a serious m.h. problem.

I've probably gone right off piste here

What do you mean by populism?

Everything the left don’t like!

It’s what we see and hear about daily Iam64 and it has been building for a long time.
In politics, and in the general public, feelings and sentiment have taken precedence over caution,truth, and common sense. In some things, this can be be for good reasons and have good outcomes, in others ...not so much.
Everyone is an expert now it seems, and emotion in anything at all is lauded.
All the diagnosing that goes on here on the forum about mental health is a sign of this too, ‘he’s a narc!’ ‘She is toxic’ kind of thing. Sometimes ( to misquote Freud) sometimes being selfish is just being selfish.

I agree with your last paragraph lemongrove so many amateur diagnosticians on here.
Autism, depression, narcissism, OCD are bandied around without any real concept of how devastating these conditions can be. I think sometimes that posters asking for advice must get frightened to death by these comments.
There are people as you say who are just selfish, bad, or uncaring but we seem afraid to say this and hide behind labels.

25Avalon

What do you mean by populism?

It has a specific meaning in politics.

It is a concept that is seen as worshipping the people, but beyond that it is a very “thin” ideology. So it doesn’t provide answers to every political theory, but it does provide a divisive background to any one of the mainstream political ideologies.

It is often used to define what is seen as “the people” against the elite. So it is an ideology of division, setting what it terms as the virtuous will of the people against the corrupt elite. It is used in any area that is useful to divide the population.

It has grown in Europe probably since the 80s and instances can be found where it has targeted immigrants and national minorities.

And you have heard that rhetoric from both Trump and Johnson. Farage of course. Brexit was a prime example, and Johnson used the rhetoric throughout the last election.

Urmstongran

Everything the left don’t like!

Nope you can have populist left leaning governments as well as right leaning

The point is it is about division, and I would have thought that most right thinking folk can see that it does nothing for the country setting people against people and should always be rejected

To my mind it is a parasitic ideology that sits on the back of mainstream ideologies which are themselves grounded in a wide systematic set of beliefs

One aspect of populism is the rejection of experts, described as the elite. The pandemic has proven the need for expertese, showing us how much we rely on doctors, researchers, statisticians, epidemiologists, and ultimately how much our survival may depend on the work of virologists and vaccine developers.

All but the most abject knuckle dragging populists can see that they were wrong to ignore the experts and allow their gut instincts to be manipulated.

It is no coincidence that the countries which elected populist leaders have suffered very badly from the incompetence of their governments during the pandemic.

It would make sense. But turkeys vote for Christmas all the time. They then spend the next 4/5 years complaining about Christmas, but make no link to their vote.

I do, however, want to see whoever is in power at least pay lip service to the commitments they made to their country. I think we're in a bad way when the politicians don't even attempt to cover up their corruption.

I hope against hope that Trump will be out, but I read a report by a pollster that has been correct in almost all of his predictions and he predicts another Trump win.

I'm glad I am old. Not too much longer to tolerate such corruption, but I do worry for my grandson. He fits about every category that the right wing hate.

Populism is the lie that dictators tell the people, that they are better than all politicians who are lying cheating thieves.

EG Mr Trump tells that to his devotees via Twitter. The devotees take Mr Trump's bait and think "Trump is the one and only Hero Man who will champion the people against corrupt politicians".

I think the other thing with populism is that it is generally adopted by the more extreme politics.

So in both the U.K. and USA there is the most right wing government that we have had since I can’t remember.

The extreme left populist are characterised by leaders like Hugo Chevaz

Then you get people calling those who think differently “knuckledraggers” and are bemused that those you have insulted so nastily don’t want anything to do with you or your political views. Sneering and contempt won’t win votes.

It would also help if the experts stopped contradicting each other all of the time. Is a so called expert from Cambridge’s view more valid than an expert from Oxford? It seems their own ego is the driving force rather than a genuine search for truth.

It would also help if the experts stopped contradicting each other all of the time. Is a so called expert from Cambridge’s view more valid than an expert from Oxford? It seems their own ego is the driving force rather than a genuine search for truth.

Do you have an example of this?

More misquoting. The "knuckledraggers" are only those who have not yet understood how much, now more than ever, we need experts and should respect their valuable contribution.

The "people have had enough of experts" was a disgraceful populist statement by Gove.

Kamiso

Then you get people calling those who think differently “knuckledraggers” and are bemused that those you have insulted so nastily don’t want anything to do with you or your political views. Sneering and contempt won’t win votes.

It would also help if the experts stopped contradicting each other all of the time. Is a so called expert from Cambridge’s view more valid than an expert from Oxford? It seems their own ego is the driving force rather than a genuine search for truth.

Experts do disagree, but not to the extent populists would have you believe.

There is a scientific consensus backed up by peer examination etc. and nothing is accepted without evidential back up.

An example is climate change. Remember when so called experts refused to accept climate change as a fact. They had nothing to back up their claim, except refusal to accept the evidence. But for a number of years climate deniers views were treated as valid as the climatologists evidence base arguments. What happened was that over a number of years the evidence has become overwhelming and now only the flat earthers believe that climate change doesn’t exist.

Populist rhetoric is not subjected to such rigorous testing because it can’t be. It is based on emotion.

Kamiso I read that 'knuckledraggers' comment differently.

We all know that there are people of poor intellect in this world . Whilst it may be an unkind description of people with low intellectual ability ..they are not confined to left or right wing politics,,,but are often at the extreme end of the one they latch on to and cause all kinds of difficulties for more 'moderate' thinkers.!