Cameron - friend of Muslim women?

Nothing to do with terrorism, but a good social thing to do as so many Muslim women are kept at home, and how can they fully integrate if they don't speak English?
I think the threat of deportation only applies to those who need visa renewing , ( and is likely to be just that, a threat.)

Can't see it getting off the ground though. As has been said on another thread, a lot of Muslim men don't want their womenfolk to learn English, or be educated in any other way for that matter.

The article I read did not say Muslim women who didn't learn English (perhaps because they found it too hard, or were prevented from really trying) would be deported. The talk about deportations was about other people, as roses has indicated, and for other reasons.

I believe the article Cameron actually wrote, which might be the best one to read, all things considered, is in the Times.

x posts. Exactly, ana. But where it does help it's a good idea. Education always is.

Yes, of course

Here is a balanced article, highlighting and countering silly reactions elsewhere in the media. It is on the website of the National Secular Society: www.secularism.org.uk.

I think that there should be an obligation at least to learn the language and social mores of a country which you wish to make your home. This applies to all races, creeds and nationalities, not just Muslim women as the red tops would have us all believe. There is though an additional issue with Muslim women in that their lack of language keeps them isolated, this may be a religious issue. I would suggest that this recommendation should apply to all of us who wish to live in another country, those on here who live in France or Spain presumably speak passable French or Spanish. It is when you think of it, very isolating to be unable to even pass the time of day with ones neighbours or ask for goods in a shop, and as for explaining a medical problem.......there are stories of Muslim women having to describe, through their teenage child translator, their medical symptoms, if these are gynaecological problems it must be so hard. I dont think it is unreasonable to expect residents of a country to be able to read and speak some of the language, for their own sake and for the sake of integrating into society.

I was part of a volunteer scheme for teaching English to immigrants. I taught classes in centres, individuals in my home and I taught in other people's homes. I had a number of Muslim pupils whose husbands were only too happy for their wives to learn English, particularly because it enabled them to communicate with GPs, their children's teachers, etc. It was more convenient for them to be taught at their homes, not least because of childcare. It was a great scheme that worked really well. It was sad that it was eventually disbanded.

The various influxes of people from different countries and cultures that we have had in the past eg Italian, German Jewish etc all learned English. It wasn't odd or special. Its just the sensible thing to do if you're going to live in another country. I don't know what's so special about some but not all Muslim women.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35345315

What some Muslims think of the idea.

The spousal settlement visa, to which the new English language test applies, requires that the person with whom the new arrival is coming to live is already settled. This means all children born to a couple using a spousal settlement visa have British citizenship.

There is also no guarantee that children born Britain citizens would have a right to live in another country – meaning that in some cases mothers might be unable to take their children back to live with them in their country of origin.

Despite the new emphasis on forcing women to learn English Mr Cameron admitted that his government had actually previously cut funding for English-language tuition for migrants. He blamed the deficit for the policy.

“Yes, budgets did come down in the past because all budgets were under pressure because of the enormous deficit and the need to pay that down,” he told the same programme."

I do not think this is particularly inflammatory.
He admits that they cut the funding for language tuition for migrants. Now he's realised that it was a bad idea, but he's targeting the women, not the fact that he cut the funding.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35345315

What some Muslims think of the idea.

'Some' being the operative word. Not many, and the women were all articulate and confident.

Of course their opinions are relevant, but what about the hidden minority (?) of Muslim women who aren't even allowed to leave their homes without a male relative and have no way of knowing about this initiative and wouldn't be allowed to access it anyway?

Whilst some Muslim women are oppressed not all are and there are those who wish to continue with the life they have

Why have you posted that link twice, durhamjen?

The women who are not allowed access to it will be tested after 2.5 years and sent home because their English has not improved.
Party of the family?
Their husbands and children will be able to stay here.

Sorry, Jess, had not seen your third link to the fact that the government had cut funding in 2011.

Two and a half years is surely more than enough to improve anyone's English. Nit-picking as usual.

And if they haven't been 'allowed access to it' (presumably by their family), how are they going to be 'tested'?

But that's his plan. I do not think they will get exemption because their family do not allow them access.
You are the one who mentioned the hidden minority. Now you are arguing with yourself.

Who knows ana - assessment by the tutor - or a terrifying interview with an immigration officer.

I've studied a number of languages - Latin, French, Spanish and Greek. All pretty straightforward. Pretty easy to get to GCSE standard. Currently learning a language with a very different, and very, um, rich grammar. Much harder. One in which the official written version very different to the spoken. Although I have been learning for 3 years I would not yet choose to be interviewed in that language, as it all goes to pieces when I feel nervous.
This experience has given me an increased respect for people whose first language is very unlike English but manage to learn good English as adults.

I was involved in trying to help women access ESOL classes about 12 years ago and they were in short supply then. The tutors were required to have a very high standard of qualification (equivalent roughly to what would be expected if you applied for a job in a sixth form college, teaching at A level standard). It was not easy then for women to find a class at a suitable level, that they could get to. For many they would need a creche (which cranks up the cost dramatically). And might well prefer an all-female class as they are not used to mixing with men outside their immediate circle.
The classes were partly or wholly funded by the adult education budget - remember the days when there were such things? Since then adult education funded/subsidised by local authorities has pretty much disappeared.

I think if the PM thinks this is a good idea then shouting about it from the rooftops may not be the best idea. But he seems to be courting headlines at the moment.

He will continue to shout from the roof tops, elections in May,

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/118060

This is another idea of the government. If they actually manage to stay her for the 2.5 years and last for 5 years, they can then be sent home if they do not earn £35,000 a year. So any non- EU residents need to be in the top 10% of earners.
This comes in in April. Strangely the e petiton is now gaining a lot more signatures per hour.

Yes I guess it's the May elections... And his wish to be seen to be "doing something" about terrorism.
If he really cared about integration or about the lives of Muslim women he wouldn't be suddenly doing this now. Not convinced there are any good intentions behind this beyond benefit to the Conservative government.

Being quite aware of the popularity of Trump through Muslim attacks Cameron is now attacking Muslims but in a very sly way, he knows not to do a Trump so under the pretence of releasing Muslim women from alleged captivity he is threatening them , even threatening to separate mothers from their children if they do not learn English , he disgusts me ,

I dont trust Cameron over this.
He singles out Muslim women for support with learning English to avoid isolation but this needs to be done sensitively and with regard for their cultural norms. The idea of deporting those who cannot learn well enough is evil.

Let's first try forcing all older Brits to learn adequate French or be deported.

I do not agree with these norms but to alienate the people you are trying to assist will get you nowhere. Particularly if the communities these people come from do not have good access to education and have norms where woman are traditionally isolated from men socially and the men are dominant in households. (The women walking ?7 paces behind her husband stuff.)

The west has caused a lot of resentment in the Muslim world recently by it's military interventions and that has likely to have fueled the idea that Islam is under serious attack form the west. To assume that forcing the women to learn English is going to prevent extremism is plain stupid.

This might be a pipe dream but try it.
Target English teaching efforts at the younger women coming over here from the countries affected. They stand a better chance of assimilating the British culture as they are younger, probably have better literacy than their mothers and are nearer the optimum ages for being able to learn new languages.
Then get the Mosques etc to promote campaigns to get the men to get their wives to go for English lessons.

I really dislike like the idea of women having to defer to men about these things but if it stands a better chance of working in the womans favour why not? Work with the system to change it.