Something shocking

My feelings were similar bags. It doesn't sit well with me to be glad that a person has died and I couldn't support the death penalty. However if someone takes their own life then perhaps there is some sense of justice having been served? I'm not sure enough of my feelings at the moment to be clearer than that, I'm afraid.

I think, well I'm guessing really, that if I were one of his victims, I would feel better,safer, knowing that he'd gone.

I also hesitate.....in England and Wales there are Safer Custody prison officers in every prison, trained to prevent self harm and suicide. It's contagious in prisons, especially amongst youths in Young Offenders Institutions. The rate of attempts and actual suicides has reduced greatly since the inception of Safer Custody - they have a similar arrangement in the USA, hence Castro being on 30 minute watch. To illustrate, in Styal prison there were an average of 42 attempts each night when Safer Custody began. It's highly stressful looking after suicidal prisoners.

I would say that Castro is no loss, but think about the poor prison staff whose lives are deeply affected by the trauma of finding a man hanging and having to cut him down and attempt to revive him (they must keep trying until paramedics or doctors take over). He would be one of several such suicides or attempts that they would have to deal with frequently. It's a horrible experience, those finding him are not medically trained and often need counselling and time off work to recover. Having been on duty in probation hostels when offenders have killed themselves, I have called ambulances for staff suffering shock in the aftermath of trying to resuscitate people who have committed suicide. It's a messy business, to be avoided if at all possible, if only for the people directly affected by it.

.I thought he pleaded guilty to escape a death sentence?

That's an interesting way of looking at it, when, and not one I, in my ignorance of such things, had considered before – the effect on the people who have to deal with people who attempt suicide, or succeed.

I think the Castro case is different from young offenders though. I too would want to prevent young people from committing suicide because, if nothing else, of a feeling of hope for them to improve their lives and be happy and useful to society. But the Castros of this world we are well rid of, I can't help feeling.

But yes, sympathy for the prison officers.

aka, I think deciding to end your own life is different from having someone else not only decide when but how. You are not in control of the latter.

Yes, Castro is different from young offenders, Bags but suicide and self harm is prolific in adult prisons, too. In his case, like Fred West and Harold Shipman, he would have his own reasons for wanting to end his life. Being segregated to keep him safe from other prisoners who would attack him probably contributed to his decision. The prospect of an interminable time in solitary confinement, too.

I guess he shortened his 1000 year sentence!

Yes, I feel for the staff who might get blamed, but his death will probably help his victims.

I would have preferred him to stay alive and suffer the miseries of imprisonment - as his victims had to suffer.

Which is why I don't think his death is a bad thing. No point spending the rest of your life being depressed in prison. I don't think there was another option for him, was there? Not yet anyhow, if ever. I wonder if he began to realise what those women had suffered at his hand? I'm glad he's dead, for his sake as much as anyone else's.

Crossed posts, joan. I was replying to what when said.

Part of me feels pity for people like him but mostly I feel they are an unwanted burden on society and society is well rid of them.

Joan - that's my initial thought but of course it's only hypothetical - I was thinking of Shipman and West as well and that if I'd been a relative of their victims would I have thought they'd cheated justice? I can't know .

DH and I agree with Joan his prison life would not have included rape on a regular basis the way his victims did.
Death was to convenient for him and has been said too traumatic for the officers involved.

No, nina, but one of the reasons he was in solitary is because he would otherwise probably have got beaten up regularly by other prisoners.

Just listening to Eddie Mair interviewing a psychotherapist who has been looking after Jaycee Dugard from California who was abducted and held for 18 years.
She's saying that the suicide was the ultimate expression of power control of the predator, and that in her opinion such people are untreatable.

My initial reaction is that I wish he had lived, and suffered every day of incarceration. And I mean suffered.

Some violent prisoners habitually craft knives from disposable razor blades set into toothbrushes, will trip someone on stairs, throw boiling sugared water across a canteen counter, or gouge eyes with fingers, when they get access to sex offenders who they regard as lowest in the pecking order and deserving of extreme violence. Many convicted serial child abusers and murderers have been killed or maimed, and so they will usually be segregated or treated as vulnerable, especially at the beginning of their sentences.

Would those things that when has detailed count as enough suffering as far as you are concerned phoenix?

It is a hard to accept feelings that we genuinely feel when they go against the grain of our usual values. I do not feel pleased Ariel Castro is dead but neither am I sorry. He was obviously not safe to live within society.

It is the one thing he was able to control so maybe he scored a point by killing himself. Maybe he had to actually face the enormity of his crimes and it was too awful to live with and it was an act of helplessness. We will never know the truth but I hope it has a positive impact on his victims.

Also, psychotherapists don't know everything. That's just one theory about suicide.

I heard the interview jeanainsworth referred to with the psychologist who is involved with Jaycee Dugard. I appreciated her honest comment that her involvement with the survivors/victims led her to have less sympathy for the perpetrator's own difficulties. My work was similar to that of when, but for the later part I worked primarily with victims/survivors and their families, rather than directly with perpetrators. For that reason, I empathised with what the psychologist said to Eddie Mair. There is something of an irony in his inability to cope with being imprisoned, given the nature of his horrific crimes. My sympathies are with the prison staff directly affected, and with the young women who will have yet another shock to live with, and try and make some sense of.

Yesterday I heard the comment that the three girls will be put through the whole thing again by the media dragging it up. They wanted him to suffer as they suffered but HE has managed to dodge that.

No petallus , I wasn't thinking of physical suffering, or being harmed by others, more the mental aspect. Being denied freedom, having every moment of the day controlled by others, having no choice in anything, just like his victims.

I have to say that I do NOT think the legal system is there to provide us with a means of having our revenge. Justice is something else.